19 ms·

"Don't just read it; fight it"

79 points by jsomers 17y ago

godDLL 17y ago
The gist: musings on the scientific methodology, curiosity, and generally mindful approach to life, work, and play.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
michael_nielsen 17y ago
Mortimer Adler wrote a wonderful book about reading, "How to Read a Book", that's still in print after 70 years. It changed my life by transforming my view of reading, and, consequently, how I read. It's like a very souped up version of this blog post. Link: http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095 http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/06712...
- olliesaunders 17y ago
  I'm reading that right now. Well, I say reading, I really mean ignoring on my bedside-table. I did read some and now I don't want to subject myself to the boredom again. Although I can certainly confirm that it is full of good—possibly very good—information.
tpyo 17y ago
Seems Feynman had an excellent father, seeing from the interviews I have seen with him.
realitygrill 17y ago
This quote is from Halmos' "automathography", I Want To Be A Mathematician. I loved reading this book (though I'm no mathematician). http://www.amazon.com/I-Want-Be-Mathematician-Automathography/dp/0387960783 http://www.amazon.com/I-Want-Be-Mathematician-Automathograph...
Panoramix 17y ago
Nice post. I agree with the sentiment, but I'm afraid that it's not really possible to "fight" with everything you read (mostly due to time constraints). I couldn't agree more with the "explain stuff" bit. I have found deep gaps in my knowledge while explaining stuff to others (or found new angles to attack a problem, etc). It's almost as much about teaching others as it's about learning.
- jurjenh 17y ago
  I think it is possible to "fight" everything you read, you'd end up reading much less, but would likely know (as in understand) more. The challenge lies in sourcing the material you'd like to digest - so you should revisit your goals every time you start to uncover some new understanding. I know that I've been on an information skimming trip, and although I feel that I have enlarged my impression of the world considerably, my actual knowledge of the world has only grown marginally - along the lines of confirming intuitions, and occasionally challenging preconceptions I've had.
lesterbuck 17y ago
This reminds me of the Zen proverb that I ran across a few months ago, and now have pasted on the wall above my desk: "To know and not to do is not yet to know." There is something very real in the action taken from knowledge that looks so minor in foresight, and is so huge in hindsight. Like Goethe's famous quote about the power of action. There is also the book "The Knowing-Doing Gap", which takes this idea into the organizational context.
praptak 17y ago
While I agree with the gist of the article, I find the following piece of advice counterproductive, especially when applied to math texts: "Read at the speed of understanding—don’t disengage from the hard stuff just to finish an article. When you start to glaze, or skim, or you feel like you’re just sort of scanning over the forms of words, reboot." My advice is quite the opposite: do not try to understand the article left-to-right, top-to-bottom. Skim (omitting the hard parts) as many times as necessary to get the general ideas and only then attack the hard parts.
- realitygrill 17y ago
  Halmos talks a lot about learning tactics in the book.. he's an enthusiastic supporter of the Moore method, too. "I wish I had read the first 10 pages of many more books -- a splendid mathematical education can be acquired that way." "Another way I keep active as I read is by changing the notation; if there is nothing else I can do, I can at least change (improve?) the choice of letters. Some of my friends think that's silly, but it works for me... Finally, a small point, but one with some psychological validity: as I keep changing the notation to my own, I get a feeling of being creative, tiny but non-zero..." And the part that reminded me of your advice: "Learning a language is different from learning a mathematical subject; in one the problem is to acquire a habit, in the other to understand a structure. The difference has some important implications. In learning a language from a textbook, you might as well go through the book as it stands and work all the exercises in it; what matters is to keep practising the use of the language. If, however, you want to learn group theory, it is not a good idea to open a book on page 1 and read it, working all the problems in order, till you come to the last page. It's a bad idea. The material is arranged in the book so that its linear reading is logically defensible, to be sure, but we readers are human, all different from one another and from the author, and each of us is likely to find something difficult that is easy for someone else. My advice is to read till you come to a definition new to you, and then stop and try to think of examples and non-examples, or till you come to a theorem new to you, and then stop and try to understand it and prove it for yourself -- and, most important, when you come to an obstacle, a mysterious passage, an unsolvable problem, just skip it. Jump ahead, try the next problem, turn the page, go to the next chapter, or even abandon the book and start another one. Books may be linearly ordered, but our minds are not."
julius_geezer 17y ago
Having recently read _The Age of Wonder_, about British science in its overlap with the Romantic period in literature, I have to say that a lot of authors and publishers seem to imagine that _any_ book will be read with the attention commonly given to popular fiction--not much. Lots and lots of sloppy stuff.
greenlblue 17y ago
Points 4 and 6 are pretty good.
derefr 17y ago
Does this apply to fiction that one would otherwise be reading for escapism? Or would "fighting it" kill it, in that case?
gnubardt 17y ago
I think it's important not to confuse #3 (Think like Feynman...Imagine actively. Use the phrase “that would mean…” to force yourself to think on your own terms with your own vivid images.) with over analogizing. Thinking about a concept creatively to see a different view is great but only understanding something as something else can prevent one from deeply understanding the concept. Even if one begins to comprehend a concept through analogy I think it's important to eventually think beyond it, and see "through" the analogy to the deeper meaning. Think of leaky abstractions.
yarapavan 17y ago
Summary: Expanding on Paul Halmos quote: *Don’t just read it; fight it! Ask your own questions, look for your own examples, discover your own proofs. Is the hypothesis necessary? Is the converse true? What happens in the classical special case? What about the degenerate cases? Where does the proof use the hypothesis?
GavinB 17y ago
When you start writing your own novel, this is exactly what happens. You start to read other novels with a new awareness of what the author is doing in terms of word choice, pacing, and explication. You read with an eye to how you would have done it--and are often shocked when you realize how much of the craft of writing you were previously just skimming through.
- katovatzschyn 17y ago
  If a novel is not worth reading slowly, it is not worth reading. Most of the time.

79 points by jsomers 17y ago

godDLL 17y ago

The gist: musings on the scientific methodology, curiosity, and generally mindful approach to life, work, and play.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

michael_nielsen 17y ago

Mortimer Adler wrote a wonderful book about reading, "How to Read a Book", that's still in print after 70 years. It changed my life by transforming my view of reading, and, consequently, how I read. It's like a very souped up version of this blog post. Link: http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095 http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/06712...

olliesaunders 17y ago
I'm reading that right now. Well, I say reading, I really mean ignoring on my bedside-table. I did read some and now I don't want to subject myself to the boredom again. Although I can certainly confirm that it is full of good—possibly very good—information.

tpyo 17y ago

Seems Feynman had an excellent father, seeing from the interviews I have seen with him.

realitygrill 17y ago

This quote is from Halmos' "automathography", I Want To Be A Mathematician. I loved reading this book (though I'm no mathematician). http://www.amazon.com/I-Want-Be-Mathematician-Automathography/dp/0387960783 http://www.amazon.com/I-Want-Be-Mathematician-Automathograph...

Panoramix 17y ago

Nice post. I agree with the sentiment, but I'm afraid that it's not really possible to "fight" with everything you read (mostly due to time constraints). I couldn't agree more with the "explain stuff" bit. I have found deep gaps in my knowledge while explaining stuff to others (or found new angles to attack a problem, etc). It's almost as much about teaching others as it's about learning.

jurjenh 17y ago
I think it is possible to "fight" everything you read, you'd end up reading much less, but would likely know (as in understand) more. The challenge lies in sourcing the material you'd like to digest - so you should revisit your goals every time you start to uncover some new understanding. I know that I've been on an information skimming trip, and although I feel that I have enlarged my impression of the world considerably, my actual knowledge of the world has only grown marginally - along the lines of confirming intuitions, and occasionally challenging preconceptions I've had.

lesterbuck 17y ago

This reminds me of the Zen proverb that I ran across a few months ago, and now have pasted on the wall above my desk: "To know and not to do is not yet to know." There is something very real in the action taken from knowledge that looks so minor in foresight, and is so huge in hindsight. Like Goethe's famous quote about the power of action. There is also the book "The Knowing-Doing Gap", which takes this idea into the organizational context.

praptak 17y ago

While I agree with the gist of the article, I find the following piece of advice counterproductive, especially when applied to math texts: "Read at the speed of understanding—don’t disengage from the hard stuff just to finish an article. When you start to glaze, or skim, or you feel like you’re just sort of scanning over the forms of words, reboot." My advice is quite the opposite: do not try to understand the article left-to-right, top-to-bottom. Skim (omitting the hard parts) as many times as necessary to get the general ideas and only then attack the hard parts.

realitygrill 17y ago
Halmos talks a lot about learning tactics in the book.. he's an enthusiastic supporter of the Moore method, too. "I wish I had read the first 10 pages of many more books -- a splendid mathematical education can be acquired that way." "Another way I keep active as I read is by changing the notation; if there is nothing else I can do, I can at least change (improve?) the choice of letters. Some of my friends think that's silly, but it works for me... Finally, a small point, but one with some psychological validity: as I keep changing the notation to my own, I get a feeling of being creative, tiny but non-zero..." And the part that reminded me of your advice: "Learning a language is different from learning a mathematical subject; in one the problem is to acquire a habit, in the other to understand a structure. The difference has some important implications. In learning a language from a textbook, you might as well go through the book as it stands and work all the exercises in it; what matters is to keep practising the use of the language. If, however, you want to learn group theory, it is not a good idea to open a book on page 1 and read it, working all the problems in order, till you come to the last page. It's a bad idea. The material is arranged in the book so that its linear reading is logically defensible, to be sure, but we readers are human, all different from one another and from the author, and each of us is likely to find something difficult that is easy for someone else. My advice is to read till you come to a definition new to you, and then stop and try to think of examples and non-examples, or till you come to a theorem new to you, and then stop and try to understand it and prove it for yourself -- and, most important, when you come to an obstacle, a mysterious passage, an unsolvable problem, just skip it. Jump ahead, try the next problem, turn the page, go to the next chapter, or even abandon the book and start another one. Books may be linearly ordered, but our minds are not."

julius_geezer 17y ago

Having recently read _The Age of Wonder_, about British science in its overlap with the Romantic period in literature, I have to say that a lot of authors and publishers seem to imagine that _any_ book will be read with the attention commonly given to popular fiction--not much. Lots and lots of sloppy stuff.

greenlblue 17y ago

Points 4 and 6 are pretty good.

derefr 17y ago

Does this apply to fiction that one would otherwise be reading for escapism? Or would "fighting it" kill it, in that case?

gnubardt 17y ago

I think it's important not to confuse #3 (Think like Feynman...Imagine actively. Use the phrase “that would mean…” to force yourself to think on your own terms with your own vivid images.) with over analogizing. Thinking about a concept creatively to see a different view is great but only understanding something as something else can prevent one from deeply understanding the concept. Even if one begins to comprehend a concept through analogy I think it's important to eventually think beyond it, and see "through" the analogy to the deeper meaning. Think of leaky abstractions.

yarapavan 17y ago

Summary: Expanding on Paul Halmos quote: *Don’t just read it; fight it! Ask your own questions, look for your own examples, discover your own proofs. Is the hypothesis necessary? Is the converse true? What happens in the classical special case? What about the degenerate cases? Where does the proof use the hypothesis?

GavinB 17y ago

When you start writing your own novel, this is exactly what happens. You start to read other novels with a new awareness of what the author is doing in terms of word choice, pacing, and explication. You read with an eye to how you would have done it--and are often shocked when you realize how much of the craft of writing you were previously just skimming through.

katovatzschyn 17y ago
If a novel is not worth reading slowly, it is not worth reading. Most of the time.