4 ms·

Plagiarism is wildly overrated. I remember in middle/high school writing research papers for English class. I spent more time trying to NOT plagiarize than I s

Plagiarism is wildly overrated. I remember in middle/high school writing research papers for English class. I spent more time trying to NOT plagiarize than I spent on any other aspect of the paper. Which doubly absurd when you consider that there is literally not a single original thought a 14 year old is capable of having with respect to the War of 1812. When the entirety of my knowledge on a subject is based on a half dozen sources how the hell can I not plagiarize. In that instance I say plagiarize away! Focus on idea sharing. On how to explain complex ideas to your classmates. On how to build consistent abstractions or arguments. On literally anything other than how to rewrite the three sentences so it says the same thing as those three sentences but with different words so you don't get kicked out of school.

jmduke 11y ago
This sounds like a failure of your teacher/grader, not like a failure of the idea of plagiarism, though? > Focus on idea sharing. On how to explain complex ideas to your classmates. On how to build consistent abstractions or arguments. 100% agreed! And I think most cogent interpretations of plagiarism would say that if you're able to do those things then you're not plagiarising, you're building off of other sources (providing that you cite them correctly). (It's entirely possible that I've been lucky, and that my teachers/professors took unusually rational stances when it came to this kind of thing. But it feels like you're presenting a false dichotomy.)
SOLAR_FIELDS 11y ago
All ideas are built upon. There is a very clear line between simply copy pasting an idea and reformulating that idea in your own words. I agree that we should focus more on coming up with ideas independently, and that if they so happen to coincide with an idea someone came up before, no big deal. In today's diverse world, however, what are the chances that you were even remotely going to say something word for word how someone else before you said it?
- halo 11y ago
  Why do we care so much about reformulating ideas in our own words? If someone expresses an idea in a good way, why shouldn't we be able to repeat it verbatim without being raked over hot coals for it?
  - slvv 11y ago
    You can totally repeat excellent wording verbatim! It's just that you have to add quotation marks and cite your source.
    - halo 11y ago
      That's my contention - why? Isn't that slavish devotion to quoting and sourcing all turns of phrase somewhat limiting? Why do we irrationally consider plagiarism such a horrible blight to be eradicated at all costs?
      - Karunamon 11y ago
        Respect for your reader, for one. Citations ensure your reader knows that: A) It isn't your original thought or original words B) They can look up some certain work by the person if they're interested in more There's no doubt some level of it that's just academic elitism (don't even get me started on "authoritative sources"), but not deceiving your reader is a good portion of the requirement. It's not just about the fact that you used someone else's words, it's the fact that you did so, and passed off that work as your own.
        halo 11y ago
        Why does rephrasing a sentence magically turn a derivative thought into an original one? Why is using someone else's uncited phrasing considered the worst thing in the world? Why is it so vital that every single creative idea goes back to its root source with a full quotation and citation, distracting from the core idea, and shouldn't be creatively remixed or reworked? It's bizarre and irrational. It's not just academic elitism, it's also about how the notion of copyright has changed our natural creative and communication processes. The natural copying, sharing and evolution of ideas has gone from being a natural of expression and communication into something verboten. Our collective culture, our modern folk tales and songs, are controlled in perpetuity with zero tolerance for "plagiarism". Any derivative ideas may not be retransmitted, reproduced, rebroadcast, or otherwise distributed without the express written consent of the copyright holder.
pdpi 11y ago
You don't need to have _original_ ideas. You can summarise the ideas from some other source (or, ideally, sources). In summarising, you make some choices as to what you think is important, and what you think is immaterial. You explain the core concepts in your own words, maybe differently from the source material. And, if you're quoting from a specific source verbatim, you acknowledge it. Plagiarism is not about the copying in and of itself. It's about appropriating somebody else's work and pretending it's yours.
mcguire 11y ago
Note that plagiarism involves not citing your sources. How do you feel when someone claims your ideas as their own?
- forrestthewoods 11y ago
  Probably nothing. I wouldn't even know. My blog has around a million views lifetime. I've no idea if anyone has claimed any ideas as their own. Maybe? Thus far it's not hurt me. I've taken tons of ideas from Stack Overflow. All programmers have. How often do we include citations back? Sometimes! If the code is clever and non-obvious. But generally speaking there's nothing. How did I know to use this bit of API goodness? No one knows! It's a mystery!

jmduke 11y ago

This sounds like a failure of your teacher/grader, not like a failure of the idea of plagiarism, though? > Focus on idea sharing. On how to explain complex ideas to your classmates. On how to build consistent abstractions or arguments. 100% agreed! And I think most cogent interpretations of plagiarism would say that if you're able to do those things then you're not plagiarising, you're building off of other sources (providing that you cite them correctly). (It's entirely possible that I've been lucky, and that my teachers/professors took unusually rational stances when it came to this kind of thing. But it feels like you're presenting a false dichotomy.)

SOLAR_FIELDS 11y ago

All ideas are built upon. There is a very clear line between simply copy pasting an idea and reformulating that idea in your own words. I agree that we should focus more on coming up with ideas independently, and that if they so happen to coincide with an idea someone came up before, no big deal. In today's diverse world, however, what are the chances that you were even remotely going to say something word for word how someone else before you said it?

halo 11y ago
Why do we care so much about reformulating ideas in our own words? If someone expresses an idea in a good way, why shouldn't we be able to repeat it verbatim without being raked over hot coals for it?
- slvv 11y ago
  You can totally repeat excellent wording verbatim! It's just that you have to add quotation marks and cite your source.
  - halo 11y ago
    That's my contention - why? Isn't that slavish devotion to quoting and sourcing all turns of phrase somewhat limiting? Why do we irrationally consider plagiarism such a horrible blight to be eradicated at all costs?
    - Karunamon 11y ago
      Respect for your reader, for one. Citations ensure your reader knows that: A) It isn't your original thought or original words B) They can look up some certain work by the person if they're interested in more There's no doubt some level of it that's just academic elitism (don't even get me started on "authoritative sources"), but not deceiving your reader is a good portion of the requirement. It's not just about the fact that you used someone else's words, it's the fact that you did so, and passed off that work as your own.
      - halo 11y ago
        Why does rephrasing a sentence magically turn a derivative thought into an original one? Why is using someone else's uncited phrasing considered the worst thing in the world? Why is it so vital that every single creative idea goes back to its root source with a full quotation and citation, distracting from the core idea, and shouldn't be creatively remixed or reworked? It's bizarre and irrational. It's not just academic elitism, it's also about how the notion of copyright has changed our natural creative and communication processes. The natural copying, sharing and evolution of ideas has gone from being a natural of expression and communication into something verboten. Our collective culture, our modern folk tales and songs, are controlled in perpetuity with zero tolerance for "plagiarism". Any derivative ideas may not be retransmitted, reproduced, rebroadcast, or otherwise distributed without the express written consent of the copyright holder.

pdpi 11y ago

You don't need to have _original_ ideas. You can summarise the ideas from some other source (or, ideally, sources). In summarising, you make some choices as to what you think is important, and what you think is immaterial. You explain the core concepts in your own words, maybe differently from the source material. And, if you're quoting from a specific source verbatim, you acknowledge it. Plagiarism is not about the copying in and of itself. It's about appropriating somebody else's work and pretending it's yours.

mcguire 11y ago

Note that plagiarism involves not citing your sources. How do you feel when someone claims your ideas as their own?

forrestthewoods 11y ago
Probably nothing. I wouldn't even know. My blog has around a million views lifetime. I've no idea if anyone has claimed any ideas as their own. Maybe? Thus far it's not hurt me. I've taken tons of ideas from Stack Overflow. All programmers have. How often do we include citations back? Sometimes! If the code is clever and non-obvious. But generally speaking there's nothing. How did I know to use this bit of API goodness? No one knows! It's a mystery!