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What exactly is the reason for leaving Oracle? Seems like an exec. at Oracle, Cameron was forced out. OK. Not sure what the background on the departure is. Ever

by npalli 11y ago

What exactly is the reason for leaving Oracle? Seems like an exec. at Oracle, Cameron was forced out. OK. Not sure what the background on the departure is. Everyone knows Oracle is evil. So that can't be it. Is there some reading between the lines here? Maybe somebody embedded in the Java ecosystem can shed light.

toyg 11y ago
Look at the list of stuff his skepticism "extends to" and see what is missing. Hint: web apps. That's because Oracle is betting the farm on "cloud services", and a few of their offerings are based on the concept of containerized java apps running on the Oracle cloud. That alone will survive; everything else is fair game. Anything on-premise, including the JRE, are going to be basically ignored from now on. I work in a different Oracle niche and the message is the same: nothing matters but cloud. If a product can be moved to the cloud, good; if it can't, it will be killed. On-premise versions are pretty much all in legacy-mode, getting patches that pay lip-service to the idea of hybrid setups, but 90% of development resources are busy on cloud-related stuff. Somehow, the current Oracle leadership believes they should become "AWS for the enterprise", and in traditional Oracle style, they will pull all stops (and cut all corners) to get there. If you don't like it, that's the door. "Java everywhere" advocates are now surplus to requirements.
- X-Istence 11y ago
  I wouldn't want the vendor lock-in that comes with Oracle's "AWS". There has been a lot of teeth gritting over how locked into AWS certain parts of a customers company has become, using their API's, their services, and with no real way to move away if anything ever happened.
  - rodgerd 11y ago
    > I wouldn't want the vendor lock-in that comes with Oracle's "AWS". AWS has already perfected vendor lock-in, so I doubt Oracle can make it much worse, beyond their normal trick of de-certifying their products on competing platforms.
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    > I wouldn't want the vendor lock-in that comes with Oracle's "AWS". Doesn't matter, its the outsourcing of this decade. Every board wants to be in the cloud, because it gives the (stock) market the impression the company is going places. And everyone from Oracle to MS, and Google as well, wants to be the one to rent them that cloud, Hotel California style. Thats why MS has changed their tune regarding Linux, as long as it is running in a VM on top of their Azure service...
incepted 11y ago
This firing occurred almost a year ago, it's clearly not the reason why this person left this month. Also, bad mouthing a company you just left with a blog post is not a smart thing to do.
henk53 11y ago
The reason here is Java EE and Oracle not doing much for it at the moment. Reza was the Java EE evangelist and a big proponent of the technology. I can imagine his job being hard, still officially having to evangelise Java EE, while simultaneously knowing all his work is for nothing. The problem is that it has been brewing for some time that Oracle is severely neglecting Java (EE). See * http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987529/java/insider-oracle-lost-interest-in-java.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987529/java/insider-oracle... * https://jaxenter.com/oracle-and-javas-planned-obsolescence-121144.html https://jaxenter.com/oracle-and-javas-planned-obsolescence-1... A little while earlier the Java SE evangelists had been let go: * http://fortune.com/2015/09/07/oracle-cuts-java-execs http://fortune.com/2015/09/07/oracle-cuts-java-execs * http://www.infoworld.com/article/2980686/java/sources-oracle-releases-java-evangelists.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2980686/java/sources-oracle... But, the infoworld articles mentioned unnamed former Oracle employees. And people brushed them off as being FUD spread by Pivotal (the Spring company, Java EE's major competitor). But now we have for the first time I belief an actual name of an actual Oracle employee, and also not just any employee. He may not be as direct about it as we all wish, but IMHO it gives much credibility to the previous reports. If you're interested in the topic, look at the various Java EE mailing lists, and look in the repositories for the implementation code. You'll see there's plenty of evidence of Oracle suddenly doing very little for Java EE: * https://github.com/spericas/ozark/graphs/contributors https://github.com/spericas/ozark/graphs/contributors * https://github.com/javaserverfaces/mojarra/graphs/contributors?from=2015-03-02&to=2016-03-12&type=c https://github.com/javaserverfaces/mojarra/graphs/contributo... * https://twitter.com/jms_spec/status/689762921988132864 https://twitter.com/jms_spec/status/689762921988132864 * https://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/ec-public/materials/2015-12-15/December-2015-Public-Minutes.html https://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/ec-public/materia... And then look at the GlassFish 5 (Java EE 8 RI) builds, an automated zombie process with not a single Java EE 8 commit yet, and frankly almost none commits at all (see changes file for every build): * http://download.oracle.com/glassfish/5.0/nightly/index.html http://download.oracle.com/glassfish/5.0/nightly/index.html The story is the same for no matter what Java EE list or repo you look at, with the exception of CDI which is lead by Red Hat.

by npalli 11y ago

toyg 11y ago

Look at the list of stuff his skepticism "extends to" and see what is missing. Hint: web apps. That's because Oracle is betting the farm on "cloud services", and a few of their offerings are based on the concept of containerized java apps running on the Oracle cloud. That alone will survive; everything else is fair game. Anything on-premise, including the JRE, are going to be basically ignored from now on. I work in a different Oracle niche and the message is the same: nothing matters but cloud. If a product can be moved to the cloud, good; if it can't, it will be killed. On-premise versions are pretty much all in legacy-mode, getting patches that pay lip-service to the idea of hybrid setups, but 90% of development resources are busy on cloud-related stuff. Somehow, the current Oracle leadership believes they should become "AWS for the enterprise", and in traditional Oracle style, they will pull all stops (and cut all corners) to get there. If you don't like it, that's the door. "Java everywhere" advocates are now surplus to requirements.

X-Istence 11y ago
I wouldn't want the vendor lock-in that comes with Oracle's "AWS". There has been a lot of teeth gritting over how locked into AWS certain parts of a customers company has become, using their API's, their services, and with no real way to move away if anything ever happened.
- rodgerd 11y ago
  > I wouldn't want the vendor lock-in that comes with Oracle's "AWS". AWS has already perfected vendor lock-in, so I doubt Oracle can make it much worse, beyond their normal trick of de-certifying their products on competing platforms.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  > I wouldn't want the vendor lock-in that comes with Oracle's "AWS". Doesn't matter, its the outsourcing of this decade. Every board wants to be in the cloud, because it gives the (stock) market the impression the company is going places. And everyone from Oracle to MS, and Google as well, wants to be the one to rent them that cloud, Hotel California style. Thats why MS has changed their tune regarding Linux, as long as it is running in a VM on top of their Azure service...

incepted 11y ago

This firing occurred almost a year ago, it's clearly not the reason why this person left this month. Also, bad mouthing a company you just left with a blog post is not a smart thing to do.

henk53 11y ago

The reason here is Java EE and Oracle not doing much for it at the moment. Reza was the Java EE evangelist and a big proponent of the technology. I can imagine his job being hard, still officially having to evangelise Java EE, while simultaneously knowing all his work is for nothing. The problem is that it has been brewing for some time that Oracle is severely neglecting Java (EE). See * http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987529/java/insider-oracle-lost-interest-in-java.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987529/java/insider-oracle... * https://jaxenter.com/oracle-and-javas-planned-obsolescence-121144.html https://jaxenter.com/oracle-and-javas-planned-obsolescence-1... A little while earlier the Java SE evangelists had been let go: * http://fortune.com/2015/09/07/oracle-cuts-java-execs http://fortune.com/2015/09/07/oracle-cuts-java-execs * http://www.infoworld.com/article/2980686/java/sources-oracle-releases-java-evangelists.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2980686/java/sources-oracle... But, the infoworld articles mentioned unnamed former Oracle employees. And people brushed them off as being FUD spread by Pivotal (the Spring company, Java EE's major competitor). But now we have for the first time I belief an actual name of an actual Oracle employee, and also not just any employee. He may not be as direct about it as we all wish, but IMHO it gives much credibility to the previous reports. If you're interested in the topic, look at the various Java EE mailing lists, and look in the repositories for the implementation code. You'll see there's plenty of evidence of Oracle suddenly doing very little for Java EE: * https://github.com/spericas/ozark/graphs/contributors https://github.com/spericas/ozark/graphs/contributors * https://github.com/javaserverfaces/mojarra/graphs/contributors?from=2015-03-02&to=2016-03-12&type=c https://github.com/javaserverfaces/mojarra/graphs/contributo... * https://twitter.com/jms_spec/status/689762921988132864 https://twitter.com/jms_spec/status/689762921988132864 * https://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/ec-public/materials/2015-12-15/December-2015-Public-Minutes.html https://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/ec-public/materia... And then look at the GlassFish 5 (Java EE 8 RI) builds, an automated zombie process with not a single Java EE 8 commit yet, and frankly almost none commits at all (see changes file for every build): * http://download.oracle.com/glassfish/5.0/nightly/index.html http://download.oracle.com/glassfish/5.0/nightly/index.html The story is the same for no matter what Java EE list or repo you look at, with the exception of CDI which is lead by Red Hat.