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This can be prevented by setting conditions for suing: * The entity suing should set aside a budget in case they are gonna lose. If the "presumption of innocen

This can be prevented by setting conditions for suing: * The entity suing should set aside a budget in case they are gonna lose. If the "presumption of innocence" is extended to the case of patent infringement this would be not such an awkward demand towards the plaintiff. * This fee should not just be to cover lawyer costs of the defendants. If a company is wrongfully sued, it's 1.) a type of defamation, 2.) incurring internal costs regarding time/resources to set up the defense apart from just the third-party lawyer costs, 3.) incurring immaterial costs regarding the sued party who are forced to worry about matters that have nothing to do with running their business. It can be seen as a legal DDOS attack of that business, 4.) incurring future costs w.r.t. setting up defenses against these practices. You don't need to buy locks if there are no burglars. (I personally file patents as a defensive action and it would be great if sharks like these pay for that, because they are the reason I've to do so).

justinlardinois 11y ago
Presumption of innocence is only a thing for criminal cases. Civil cases use the balance of probabilities. To win there, you don't have to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt, just that your version of events is more likely to be true than than your opponent's, however slightly. Requiring plaintiffs to maintain a budget to pay fees would shut a lot of people out of the legal system, like individuals, for example. It would make it easy for large companies to violate the rights of IP holders. And if a lawsuit really defames a defendant, after winning they can always turn around and file a defamation lawsuit.
- MrQuincle 11y ago
  "Ei incumbit probatio qui." I know it's not the case for civilian law in the US. I was only pointing out strategies for change. Your point about plaintiffs with small budgets is an interesting one. Do you have examples of a David (individual) successfully suing Goliath over patents? Burdening the system with more lawsuits isn't necessary if you immediately get a yellow card when committing a schwalbe. :-)
  - justinlardinois 11y ago
    Yes, just googling "small plaintiff ip case" brought up one example: https://www.iplitigationcurrent.com/2014/10/08/attorneys-fees-awarded-to-small-businesss-to-advance-considerations-of-compensation-and-deterrence/ https://www.iplitigationcurrent.com/2014/10/08/attorneys-fee... Not sure why you ask though. Are you getting at that looking out for small plaintiffs is a waste of time if they never win anyways? Because I don't think that's a good road to go down. To address your last point, defamation is something that has to be proven in the US, and the standards for it are quite high (compared to the UK, for example, at least). A defendant can't attempt to argue and prove damages caused by the plaintiff without filing a countersuit, so I'm not sure how courts could go about handing out "yellow cards."
davvolun 11y ago
So your patent only matters if you can afford to sue someone stealing your patent? Isn't that swinging too hard the other way?

justinlardinois 11y ago

Presumption of innocence is only a thing for criminal cases. Civil cases use the balance of probabilities. To win there, you don't have to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt, just that your version of events is more likely to be true than than your opponent's, however slightly. Requiring plaintiffs to maintain a budget to pay fees would shut a lot of people out of the legal system, like individuals, for example. It would make it easy for large companies to violate the rights of IP holders. And if a lawsuit really defames a defendant, after winning they can always turn around and file a defamation lawsuit.

MrQuincle 11y ago
"Ei incumbit probatio qui." I know it's not the case for civilian law in the US. I was only pointing out strategies for change. Your point about plaintiffs with small budgets is an interesting one. Do you have examples of a David (individual) successfully suing Goliath over patents? Burdening the system with more lawsuits isn't necessary if you immediately get a yellow card when committing a schwalbe. :-)
- justinlardinois 11y ago
  Yes, just googling "small plaintiff ip case" brought up one example: https://www.iplitigationcurrent.com/2014/10/08/attorneys-fees-awarded-to-small-businesss-to-advance-considerations-of-compensation-and-deterrence/ https://www.iplitigationcurrent.com/2014/10/08/attorneys-fee... Not sure why you ask though. Are you getting at that looking out for small plaintiffs is a waste of time if they never win anyways? Because I don't think that's a good road to go down. To address your last point, defamation is something that has to be proven in the US, and the standards for it are quite high (compared to the UK, for example, at least). A defendant can't attempt to argue and prove damages caused by the plaintiff without filing a countersuit, so I'm not sure how courts could go about handing out "yellow cards."

davvolun 11y ago

So your patent only matters if you can afford to sue someone stealing your patent? Isn't that swinging too hard the other way?