4 ms·

It means nothing. Hell, I am Mexican and if I wear a sombrero (which, literally just means hat, any hat), it just means either its really sunny outside and I do

It means nothing. Hell, I am Mexican and if I wear a sombrero (which, literally just means hat, any hat), it just means either its really sunny outside and I don't have a cap for some reason, its an old-fashioned town party or I just felt like wearing a hat. A sombrero is not a yamaka, it has no religious or deeply symbolic meaning beyond that of a baseball cap or a pair of overalls. Nobody needs to have a party with sombreros, but at the same time, there is no reason to ban a party with sombreros, just because it is a party with sombreros. Thing is, we don't ban everything that is not strictly necessary for survival, we ban things only when there is a damn good reason to ban them. I'll give this whole thing the benefit of the doubt, either way, because I really don't know if the point of the party was just to wear sombreros or if there truly was some sort of weird racist overtones to it. Like, if I throw a party back in Mexico where we all dress in baseball caps and overalls, that's probably fine. If I do the same, but additionally make it known to the guests that part of the party theme is to act like stereotypical rural Americans from the southern states (e.g. I go and call it a "hillbilly party"), then I am not so sure I shouldn't be called out on that... (where "called out" is different from "evicted"). If the party was being used as a platform for racism, then yeah, cancel the whole thing, talk to students involved. If it wasn't, if it was just about having fun and wearing a "funny" hat... well, I fail to see the issue, even if it's my country's funny hat.

colanderman 11y ago
Really, yours is the only comment that should be made on the article (and most of the article itself shouldn't have been written either, since the author didn't seem to care to find a Mexican to interview). The only thing relevant in any PC incident is what actual people from the possibly-offended group actually think and feel. It behooves the rest of us to just shut the hell up.
- gherkin0 11y ago
  We live in a liberal society, and neither a particular group nor "the rest of us" should be expected to "shut the hell up."
  - colanderman 11y ago
    I didn't say we are expected to, I said it behooves us to. Anyone who argues about the PC-ness of some action related to group X without actually asking anyone from group X about it is doing nothing but talking out of their ass. (How could they do otherwise, without the cultural knowledge that comes only from being part of group X?) If they wish not to look like an uninformed idiot, it behooves them to shut up until they know what an actual person from group X thinks. Anything else is pretentious.
- lazaroclapp 11y ago
  Well, I don't claim to speak for all Mexicans, though. Much less for Mexican-Americans, who might have a stronger reaction to this sort of thing after decades of considering themselves American but having Anglo-Americans be "oh, so, aren't you one of those foreign peoples with the funny hats?". So just interviewing me and having me be "oh, if it's just wearing sombreros it might be fine" is hardly comprehensive. But I think what matters, in addition to (and co-varying with) how the affected minority feels, is the attitude of the people doing this. There is a fine but still relatively objective line between a party that celebrates Mexican culture, one that mocks it, and one that does neither. Also, even if you think you are in the third or first case, if someone comes to you and tells you that they feel you have done the second, how you react to that is important.
  - colanderman 11y ago
    Right. But even talking to one Mexican is better than saying "well, I talked to a Dominican, a Costa Rican, and a Guatemalan, because they speak the same language as people who wear sombreros". That's ridiculous.
vasilipupkin 11y ago
Did I say anything about banning anything? I am not advocating banning or not banning anything. I just don't get why wearing sombreros is in any way amusing or interesting or funny. It does seem somewhat unnecessary. The context of why people typically used to wear sombreros is because they used to think looking like a Mexican ( or a crude caricature of a Mexican ) was funny.
- lazaroclapp 11y ago
  Sorry, didn't meant you were trying to get it banned, just that unless there is something to the story that I am missing (and there might be, the party might well have been much more racist than just wearing sombreros) the university reaction seems heavy-handed. I guess your point depends on what sort of caricature and whether Mexicans at the party are more likely to feel insulted or amused... also whether people think the caricature reflects the truth or not. And whether Mexicans and Mexican-Americans feel they are in on the joke or that the joke is done at their expense. But the mere fact that it involves sombreros, or even that sombreros are considered exaggerated and funny, doesn't necessarily make the party a categorical mockery. For example, if we (in Mexico) dress like this for a football match: http://bit.ly/1X1qkWc http://bit.ly/1X1qkWc Are we making fun of this: http://bit.ly/1TgiqtO http://bit.ly/1TgiqtO ? I am not going to say a sombrero party cannot be a mockery, but I wonder if it often is. Am I stereotyping myself every time I ask people over for a tequila party?

colanderman 11y ago

Really, yours is the only comment that should be made on the article (and most of the article itself shouldn't have been written either, since the author didn't seem to care to find a Mexican to interview). The only thing relevant in any PC incident is what actual people from the possibly-offended group actually think and feel. It behooves the rest of us to just shut the hell up.

gherkin0 11y ago
We live in a liberal society, and neither a particular group nor "the rest of us" should be expected to "shut the hell up."
- colanderman 11y ago
  I didn't say we are expected to, I said it behooves us to. Anyone who argues about the PC-ness of some action related to group X without actually asking anyone from group X about it is doing nothing but talking out of their ass. (How could they do otherwise, without the cultural knowledge that comes only from being part of group X?) If they wish not to look like an uninformed idiot, it behooves them to shut up until they know what an actual person from group X thinks. Anything else is pretentious.
lazaroclapp 11y ago
Well, I don't claim to speak for all Mexicans, though. Much less for Mexican-Americans, who might have a stronger reaction to this sort of thing after decades of considering themselves American but having Anglo-Americans be "oh, so, aren't you one of those foreign peoples with the funny hats?". So just interviewing me and having me be "oh, if it's just wearing sombreros it might be fine" is hardly comprehensive. But I think what matters, in addition to (and co-varying with) how the affected minority feels, is the attitude of the people doing this. There is a fine but still relatively objective line between a party that celebrates Mexican culture, one that mocks it, and one that does neither. Also, even if you think you are in the third or first case, if someone comes to you and tells you that they feel you have done the second, how you react to that is important.
- colanderman 11y ago
  Right. But even talking to one Mexican is better than saying "well, I talked to a Dominican, a Costa Rican, and a Guatemalan, because they speak the same language as people who wear sombreros". That's ridiculous.

vasilipupkin 11y ago

Did I say anything about banning anything? I am not advocating banning or not banning anything. I just don't get why wearing sombreros is in any way amusing or interesting or funny. It does seem somewhat unnecessary. The context of why people typically used to wear sombreros is because they used to think looking like a Mexican ( or a crude caricature of a Mexican ) was funny.

lazaroclapp 11y ago
Sorry, didn't meant you were trying to get it banned, just that unless there is something to the story that I am missing (and there might be, the party might well have been much more racist than just wearing sombreros) the university reaction seems heavy-handed. I guess your point depends on what sort of caricature and whether Mexicans at the party are more likely to feel insulted or amused... also whether people think the caricature reflects the truth or not. And whether Mexicans and Mexican-Americans feel they are in on the joke or that the joke is done at their expense. But the mere fact that it involves sombreros, or even that sombreros are considered exaggerated and funny, doesn't necessarily make the party a categorical mockery. For example, if we (in Mexico) dress like this for a football match: http://bit.ly/1X1qkWc http://bit.ly/1X1qkWc Are we making fun of this: http://bit.ly/1TgiqtO http://bit.ly/1TgiqtO ? I am not going to say a sombrero party cannot be a mockery, but I wonder if it often is. Am I stereotyping myself every time I ask people over for a tequila party?