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Also Christian, and I found it to be a clever bit of fiction, really. Well-written, entertaining. Also, thanks for that link :)

by ax0n 17y ago

mambodog 17y ago
Funny, thats just how I feel about the old testament...
- godDLL 17y ago
  Really? Not to offend the persuasion of any attendees (I do mean that, stop reading if your rage is easily focused), but did you try the Hebrew version? I have studied it, as part of my education, along with ancient Hebrew laws and such. The writing is unclear, terrible at times, poetic at times; the language is so simple as to appear broken. And nearly all of the story, morals, message, or poetic meaning you take away is your own,– because of how broken Biblical Hebrew is. Whatever you take away will end up being a by-product of you studying it, not a direct product. Some 10+ years since, I can still read Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic, and I'm still not sure there was any direct product in there. So much so, that I call modern spoken Hebrew which is somewhat loosely based on Biblical Hebrew, – I call it Jibberish in my own mind, with a `j'. Like the one in Jihad, or "sacred struggle"; something inspired by—but completely unrelated—to the original scripture. And the King James is even better still, having been translated to English from Greek by a German man. Particularly the Revelations is—at times—absolutely 4chan material, I find. EDIT: ^holy\ war^sacred\ struggle
  - hackoder 17y ago
    Nitpick - Jihad does not translate (in its original arabic) to "holy war". It translates to "struggle".
  - calcnerd256 17y ago
    For someone who studied Scripture in its original language, you've still managed to hit my pet peeve of pluralizing the title of the scroll of Disclosure.
    - godDLL 17y ago
      That's the part that I didn't study, it's the Christian part. It has no Hebrew source/prototype; the original is in Greek (AFAIK), and not taught in the Migdal Emeq boarding school for boys (as it is a jewish school). EDIT: I read some King James for the shear lulz. And lulz to deliver it has.
  - gruseom 17y ago
    And the King James is even better still, having been translated to English from Greek by a German man What? That's not true at all. It was translated by a committee of English scholars and clergy. It is also a landmark of literature and history that contains some of the finest English ever written.
    - godDLL 17y ago
      Ooh, look, I am being wrong on the Internet. I am now ashamed to have remembered this incorrectly. Thank you for pointing out my error, I'll be sure to double check things I have only passing familiarity thereof in the future. But you could have provided a link, like this one: http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html EDIT: I'm not being sarcastic up there. I'm being sarcastic below here. EDIT: and the historical/literary value remark is just plain balls. "And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months." If that's not balls I don't know what is.
  - zby 17y ago
    I find the theory by Rene Girard to be quite rational explanation of what product the Bible contains. He is an apologist of Christianity - but what he writes is completely convincing for an agnostic like me.
- ax0n 17y ago
  That's alright. All the really good shit happens in the New Testament.
donaq 17y ago
Out of curiosity, what would your reaction be if you found that it wasn't fiction? Would you accept the entity the author was conversing with as God? Or would you think he was a demon? Or just an advanced godlike alien being beyond which another, more powerful entity exists in the unknowable (kinda hard, since this being created the entirety of our reality).
- artagnon 17y ago
  > advanced godlike alien being beyond which another, more powerful entity exists It all depends on how tight one's definition of God is. If it's very rigid, anything they encounter in the real world except something that sufficiently satisfies all the attributes of a textbook-God (read: Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna) including physical appearance wouldn't qualify as God.
  - klipt 17y ago
    Muhammad never claimed to be a god, but a prophet of the Jewish and Christian god.
- ax0n 17y ago
  If it wasn't fiction? Here's the thing: I might be open to the prospect of a humanoid 30-something white guy talking to me being an apparition of God. But I really don't get hung up or terribly passionate about things like all the laws in Leviticus, or whether certain stories are 100% literal or metaphors. Maybe I'd ask, but it wouldn't impact my faith one way or the other, really. And if it turned out that the guy who said he was God was just a telepathic, shape-shifting alien? Meh. A lying alien. Big whoop.
  - donaq 17y ago
    It's not a telepathic, shape-shifting alien, it's an omnipotent alien that created the universe and implies that there is no reality higher than this. Would that impact your faith? Assuming for the sake of argument that he's not lying, would you think that a) he's God, b) he's mistaken, there's a higher reality over which God presides or c) there is no God.

Also Christian, and I found it to be a clever bit of fiction, really. Well-written, entertaining. Also, thanks for that link :)

by ax0n 17y ago

Also Christian, and I found it to be a clever bit of fiction, really. Well-written, entertaining. Also, thanks for that link :)

mambodog 17y ago

Funny, thats just how I feel about the old testament...

godDLL 17y ago
Really? Not to offend the persuasion of any attendees (I do mean that, stop reading if your rage is easily focused), but did you try the Hebrew version? I have studied it, as part of my education, along with ancient Hebrew laws and such. The writing is unclear, terrible at times, poetic at times; the language is so simple as to appear broken. And nearly all of the story, morals, message, or poetic meaning you take away is your own,– because of how broken Biblical Hebrew is. Whatever you take away will end up being a by-product of you studying it, not a direct product. Some 10+ years since, I can still read Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic, and I'm still not sure there was any direct product in there. So much so, that I call modern spoken Hebrew which is somewhat loosely based on Biblical Hebrew, – I call it Jibberish in my own mind, with a `j'. Like the one in Jihad, or "sacred struggle"; something inspired by—but completely unrelated—to the original scripture. And the King James is even better still, having been translated to English from Greek by a German man. Particularly the Revelations is—at times—absolutely 4chan material, I find. EDIT: ^holy\ war^sacred\ struggle
- hackoder 17y ago
  Nitpick - Jihad does not translate (in its original arabic) to "holy war". It translates to "struggle".
- calcnerd256 17y ago
  For someone who studied Scripture in its original language, you've still managed to hit my pet peeve of pluralizing the title of the scroll of Disclosure.
  - godDLL 17y ago
    That's the part that I didn't study, it's the Christian part. It has no Hebrew source/prototype; the original is in Greek (AFAIK), and not taught in the Migdal Emeq boarding school for boys (as it is a jewish school). EDIT: I read some King James for the shear lulz. And lulz to deliver it has.
- gruseom 17y ago
  And the King James is even better still, having been translated to English from Greek by a German man What? That's not true at all. It was translated by a committee of English scholars and clergy. It is also a landmark of literature and history that contains some of the finest English ever written.
  - godDLL 17y ago
    Ooh, look, I am being wrong on the Internet. I am now ashamed to have remembered this incorrectly. Thank you for pointing out my error, I'll be sure to double check things I have only passing familiarity thereof in the future. But you could have provided a link, like this one: http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html EDIT: I'm not being sarcastic up there. I'm being sarcastic below here. EDIT: and the historical/literary value remark is just plain balls. "And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months." If that's not balls I don't know what is.
- zby 17y ago
  I find the theory by Rene Girard to be quite rational explanation of what product the Bible contains. He is an apologist of Christianity - but what he writes is completely convincing for an agnostic like me.
ax0n 17y ago
That's alright. All the really good shit happens in the New Testament.

donaq 17y ago

Out of curiosity, what would your reaction be if you found that it wasn't fiction? Would you accept the entity the author was conversing with as God? Or would you think he was a demon? Or just an advanced godlike alien being beyond which another, more powerful entity exists in the unknowable (kinda hard, since this being created the entirety of our reality).

artagnon 17y ago
> advanced godlike alien being beyond which another, more powerful entity exists It all depends on how tight one's definition of God is. If it's very rigid, anything they encounter in the real world except something that sufficiently satisfies all the attributes of a textbook-God (read: Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna) including physical appearance wouldn't qualify as God.
- klipt 17y ago
  Muhammad never claimed to be a god, but a prophet of the Jewish and Christian god.
ax0n 17y ago
If it wasn't fiction? Here's the thing: I might be open to the prospect of a humanoid 30-something white guy talking to me being an apparition of God. But I really don't get hung up or terribly passionate about things like all the laws in Leviticus, or whether certain stories are 100% literal or metaphors. Maybe I'd ask, but it wouldn't impact my faith one way or the other, really. And if it turned out that the guy who said he was God was just a telepathic, shape-shifting alien? Meh. A lying alien. Big whoop.
- donaq 17y ago
  It's not a telepathic, shape-shifting alien, it's an omnipotent alien that created the universe and implies that there is no reality higher than this. Would that impact your faith? Assuming for the sake of argument that he's not lying, would you think that a) he's God, b) he's mistaken, there's a higher reality over which God presides or c) there is no God.