5 ms·

Seriously? - he equates long jvm startup times with generally slow execution times. - he equates uncaught java stacktraces with properly displayed error messa

by mattdw 17y ago

Seriously? - he equates long jvm startup times with generally slow execution times. - he equates uncaught java stacktraces with properly displayed error messages from command-line tools - he gets frustrated that ldd and similar tools don't work on java apps - he equates the JVM startup overhead (syscalls) as meaning that a "hello world" program is overly complex, rather than, you know, an entire VM starting up. Basically, he has not the slightest clue about what Java is or how it works, and assumes it's just like all his c-language CLI tools. Which, obviously, it's not.

mooism2 17y ago
I thought his complaint about displaying stack traces in lieu of proper error messages was one of his more justified complaints. Granted, it's more of a java culture issue than a java language issue, but it's still java.
- brazzy 17y ago
  A stack trace can be much more helpful in actually solving a problem than a "proper" error message. Of course it depends on the nature of the problem; I can see how it would be different for sysadmin-type problems (missing config file, etc.)
  - moe 17y ago
    Unfortunately such traces too often don't contain much useful information at all. The proper procedure would be to catch the exceptions and annotate it with something useful like 'Config file /etc/foo/bar not found'. From the Admin POV that's more helpful than a 200 line pamphlet boiling down to something like 'AbstractConfigFactory: nullPointerException'.
jcmhn 17y ago
> - he equates uncaught java stacktraces with properly displayed error messages from command-line tools Maybe that isn't fair, but there's something about java that seems to make programmers think that uncaught exceptions are an acceptable standard error exit. Or maybe I'm just really unlucky in happening to run into the problem over and over and over again.
fseek 17y ago
For CLI tools, yes, slow startup == slow execution.

by mattdw 17y ago

mooism2 17y ago

I thought his complaint about displaying stack traces in lieu of proper error messages was one of his more justified complaints. Granted, it's more of a java culture issue than a java language issue, but it's still java.

brazzy 17y ago
A stack trace can be much more helpful in actually solving a problem than a "proper" error message. Of course it depends on the nature of the problem; I can see how it would be different for sysadmin-type problems (missing config file, etc.)
- moe 17y ago
  Unfortunately such traces too often don't contain much useful information at all. The proper procedure would be to catch the exceptions and annotate it with something useful like 'Config file /etc/foo/bar not found'. From the Admin POV that's more helpful than a 200 line pamphlet boiling down to something like 'AbstractConfigFactory: nullPointerException'.

jcmhn 17y ago

> - he equates uncaught java stacktraces with properly displayed error messages from command-line tools Maybe that isn't fair, but there's something about java that seems to make programmers think that uncaught exceptions are an acceptable standard error exit. Or maybe I'm just really unlucky in happening to run into the problem over and over and over again.

fseek 17y ago

For CLI tools, yes, slow startup == slow execution.