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And the article talks about teaching coding. I'm tired of seeing that. We need to teach kids to think, to question, to be creative problem solvers. If we do,

And the article talks about teaching coding. I'm tired of seeing that. We need to teach kids to think, to question, to be creative problem solvers. If we do, some of those kids will end up in CS eventually, but all will do well. I'm tired of reading "we need more coders" articles that read just about the same as "We need more kids to study diesel mechanics at community college so that we can keep the trucks rolling to WalMart." Standardized testing is killing our kids brains. Instead, they should be required to ask questions, not give stock answers.

aklemm 11y ago
Are those really mutually exclusive? I tend to think not, even given the finite amount of classroom time available.
- jonsen 11y ago
  In pratice, yes. It takes extraordinary skills to combine the two in teaching. A skill the average teacher simply does not have.
tanker 11y ago
I think there is a trend in this direction. The Art of Problem Solving series is a good example. As I understand it, the Every Child Succeeds Act gives more control to the states, but still seems to optimize for high test scores. That may help more students meet the profile for which college admissions officers are looking, but it may not help them be successful in college or life. For example, the ability to successfully apply formulas would help students perform better on a basic calculus test. However, this ability is all but useless outside of that test. I think the root of the problem is our reliance on credentials and in turn test scores. As long as those are important, they will be selected for over actual understanding. While I don't have a solution, I will reference Paul Graham's essay on "After Credentials." He suggests that small companies capable of relying on performance rather than credentials is the solution. The wealth of articles on HN complaining about interview processes indicate this is less than a complete solution. I'm interested in the effect a basic income would have on higher education. Would eliminating some of the economic pressure result in a better university system? Might people go to university because they were interested in learning something rather than following a prescribed set of classes required to obtain a degree?
agumonkey 11y ago
Coding is the finger, math is the moon. Any politician advertising a finger gets no love.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
tosseraccount 11y ago
"Standardized testing is killing our kids brains". Some think otherwise : "Standardized admissions tests are valid predictors of many aspects of student success across academic and applied fields." - http://science.sciencemag.org/content/315/5815/1080 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/315/5815/1080 Standardized Tests Predict Graduate Students' Success. Is there any evidence that it is "killing kids' brains" ? With all the variability in education quality, we need a measure of potential and smarts.
- epalmer 11y ago
  Observing high school kids that take part in project based learning (outside of the classroom) and noting how fast they develop deeper skills, critical thinking and problem solving. Small sample size but before and after observations are mostly very positive. (FIRST robotics) So maybe not killing kids brains but maybe not developing them to the peak potential. You might like to look at Olin College. They are trying to reinvent Engineering education. Yes they are only selecting the very best for their project based learning program. But they are working with other schools to see if their methods translate into benefits for non-Engr STEM and college students of average abilities.
  - tosseraccount 11y ago
    http://www.olin.edu/news-events/2014/olin-college-number-8-forbescom-list-top-25-colleges-ranked-sat-scores/ http://www.olin.edu/news-events/2014/olin-college-number-8-f... "Olin College Number 8 on Forbes.com List of Top 25 Colleges Ranked by SAT Scores"
- SamReidHughes 11y ago
  That it's a predictor makes it a measurement tool, not a teaching tool.
xufi 11y ago
I agree. We need more of everything. WE can't just tell people just go to one way or be one way (even myself I started to get interested with computers from a young age). We need more people in every field like how you referred to us needing more mechanics as a example . We need to rethink how all these industries need to be revamped in a way so they can actaully be more innovative.

aklemm 11y ago

Are those really mutually exclusive? I tend to think not, even given the finite amount of classroom time available.

jonsen 11y ago
In pratice, yes. It takes extraordinary skills to combine the two in teaching. A skill the average teacher simply does not have.

tanker 11y ago

I think there is a trend in this direction. The Art of Problem Solving series is a good example. As I understand it, the Every Child Succeeds Act gives more control to the states, but still seems to optimize for high test scores. That may help more students meet the profile for which college admissions officers are looking, but it may not help them be successful in college or life. For example, the ability to successfully apply formulas would help students perform better on a basic calculus test. However, this ability is all but useless outside of that test. I think the root of the problem is our reliance on credentials and in turn test scores. As long as those are important, they will be selected for over actual understanding. While I don't have a solution, I will reference Paul Graham's essay on "After Credentials." He suggests that small companies capable of relying on performance rather than credentials is the solution. The wealth of articles on HN complaining about interview processes indicate this is less than a complete solution. I'm interested in the effect a basic income would have on higher education. Would eliminating some of the economic pressure result in a better university system? Might people go to university because they were interested in learning something rather than following a prescribed set of classes required to obtain a degree?

agumonkey 11y ago

Coding is the finger, math is the moon. Any politician advertising a finger gets no love.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

tosseraccount 11y ago

"Standardized testing is killing our kids brains". Some think otherwise : "Standardized admissions tests are valid predictors of many aspects of student success across academic and applied fields." - http://science.sciencemag.org/content/315/5815/1080 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/315/5815/1080 Standardized Tests Predict Graduate Students' Success. Is there any evidence that it is "killing kids' brains" ? With all the variability in education quality, we need a measure of potential and smarts.

epalmer 11y ago
Observing high school kids that take part in project based learning (outside of the classroom) and noting how fast they develop deeper skills, critical thinking and problem solving. Small sample size but before and after observations are mostly very positive. (FIRST robotics) So maybe not killing kids brains but maybe not developing them to the peak potential. You might like to look at Olin College. They are trying to reinvent Engineering education. Yes they are only selecting the very best for their project based learning program. But they are working with other schools to see if their methods translate into benefits for non-Engr STEM and college students of average abilities.
- tosseraccount 11y ago
  http://www.olin.edu/news-events/2014/olin-college-number-8-forbescom-list-top-25-colleges-ranked-sat-scores/ http://www.olin.edu/news-events/2014/olin-college-number-8-f... "Olin College Number 8 on Forbes.com List of Top 25 Colleges Ranked by SAT Scores"
SamReidHughes 11y ago
That it's a predictor makes it a measurement tool, not a teaching tool.

xufi 11y ago

I agree. We need more of everything. WE can't just tell people just go to one way or be one way (even myself I started to get interested with computers from a young age). We need more people in every field like how you referred to us needing more mechanics as a example . We need to rethink how all these industries need to be revamped in a way so they can actaully be more innovative.