5 ms·

I always take issue with the idea that people should just make themselves more "valuable" to get a job. While it sounds like a good idea in principle, it ignor

I always take issue with the idea that people should just make themselves more "valuable" to get a job. While it sounds like a good idea in principle, it ignores the fact that without a job many people simply won't have the resources to make themselves more valuable. It creates a catch 22 situation, and the people it effects the most also happen to be the people who will struggle the most to break out of that situation.

jklinger410 11y ago
>I always take issue with the idea that people should just make themselves more "valuable" to get a job. In America the market dictates your self worth.
- barney54 11y ago
  No. No. No. The "value" her is not about self worth. It's about how much someone will pay for your labor. That's a big difference.
  - jklinger410 11y ago
    In America, to, I don't know, probably half of our country, and historically even more, if you don't get paid much you aren't worth a damn. When society doesn't value you as a human being, you don't value yourself as a human being.
    - gragas 11y ago
      >When society doesn't value you as a human being, you don't value yourself as a human being. There are many cultures that don't value people based on how much they earn. I think valuing people based on economic success is largely tied to Indian and Asian culture. As a white person from a white family in the middle of the US, no one that I care about values me based on my salary. Some cultures seem to be more obsessed with economic status than others. To me, it's repulsive.
      - _snydly 11y ago
        > As a white person from a white family in the middle of the US, no one that I care about values me based on my salary. As someone of the same background and also from the middle of nowhere mid-US, I can say this is certainly true. It seems a bit different on the coasts. That said, even my family doesn't think too highly of the unemployed, which seems a bit inconsistent.
      - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
        >There are many cultures that don't value people based on how much they earn. But how many cultures value people regardless of who or what they are? Even if it isn't tied to financials, it is tied to something and there are the haves and the have nots. You can even artificially create such values among children if you give them information to suggest that some arbitrary characteristic is a have and competing arbitrary characteristics are have nots.
      - jklinger410 11y ago
        >As a white person from a white family in the middle of the US, no one that I care about values me based on my salary. I cannot say the same.
- dhd415 11y ago
  Unfortunately, there are far too many people who confuse self worth with market worth/salary/net worth, etc. I have in the past worked many more hours in higher-stress jobs in order to make more money. I choose now to work fewer hours in a lower-stress job for somewhat less money. The market is free to assign more monetary value to jobs of the former type. I don't consider my worth as a person to be tied to how the market values my job.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  >In America the market dictates your self worth. As it does everywhere in certain factors. If you aren't attractive to a life partner, you don't get a life partner. Why should a work partner or an employer be different?
  - the_af 11y ago
    > If you aren't attractive to a life partner, you don't get a life partner. Why should a work partner or an employer be different? Because you don't necessarily die of starvation or become a burden to the state if you don't get a life partner, unlike what happens if you don't have any source of income?
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      Lack of touch will kill babies. The research wasn't extended any further because it is too harmful for ethics boards to allow. And loneliness is very harmful to one's own health which has been verified by research as well. Compare this to all the forms of welfare that do more than give the basic necessities to not die because they significantly improve qualify of life. We are social creatures, yet when we discuss needs we deserve to have met, people seem to forget that.
      - the_af 11y ago
        Sure, lots of things affect your quality of life, some slightly and some greatly. However, the job market is qualitatively different, which is why it should be held to different standards. Loneliness is definitely harmful, but still many people don't want sexual/life partners. However, everyone needs to eat and have some sort of shelter and access to health services. If you lack money for this, you either die or become a burden to someone else, possibly the state. Coming back to what I believe was the parent's point when they said "in America the market determines your self worth", your worth as a person isn't -- shouldn't be! -- how much money you make or even whether you have a job. That simply doesn't seem right to me.
        11y ago
- collyw 11y ago
  In principle. Have you ever met anyone who got a "good" job through connections?
barney54 11y ago
A lot of people go to college for just that reason--to make themselves more valuable to get a job.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Mostly white upper+middle class privileged people do that -- those that can afford it.
  - ameister14 11y ago
    So non-white poor people go to college for a liberal arts education?
    - coldtea 11y ago
      No, they usually don't go to college at all.
  - MajorLOL 11y ago
    Intrestingly its mostly White upper+middle class privileged women - those that can afford it and get the majority of non stem degrees. For the majority, college isn't about an education or job opportunity. It's an extension of the white female youth and self actualization. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/2006084.pdf http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/2006084.pdf
Tactic 11y ago
What is your solution? Personally I don't feel it is difficult to make yourself valuable enough to get "a" job. Maybe not "the" job, but "a" job. Which gives you enough resources to get "the next" job. Which you repeat until you get "the" job. It's the ladder and we climb it. It really boils down to it is the law of the jungle out there and you want something so it is up to you to figure out how to get it. And this is coming from someone that was homeless in the winters of Minnesota. I've been there.

jklinger410 11y ago

>I always take issue with the idea that people should just make themselves more "valuable" to get a job. In America the market dictates your self worth.

barney54 11y ago
No. No. No. The "value" her is not about self worth. It's about how much someone will pay for your labor. That's a big difference.
- jklinger410 11y ago
  In America, to, I don't know, probably half of our country, and historically even more, if you don't get paid much you aren't worth a damn. When society doesn't value you as a human being, you don't value yourself as a human being.
  - gragas 11y ago
    >When society doesn't value you as a human being, you don't value yourself as a human being. There are many cultures that don't value people based on how much they earn. I think valuing people based on economic success is largely tied to Indian and Asian culture. As a white person from a white family in the middle of the US, no one that I care about values me based on my salary. Some cultures seem to be more obsessed with economic status than others. To me, it's repulsive.
    - _snydly 11y ago
      > As a white person from a white family in the middle of the US, no one that I care about values me based on my salary. As someone of the same background and also from the middle of nowhere mid-US, I can say this is certainly true. It seems a bit different on the coasts. That said, even my family doesn't think too highly of the unemployed, which seems a bit inconsistent.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      >There are many cultures that don't value people based on how much they earn. But how many cultures value people regardless of who or what they are? Even if it isn't tied to financials, it is tied to something and there are the haves and the have nots. You can even artificially create such values among children if you give them information to suggest that some arbitrary characteristic is a have and competing arbitrary characteristics are have nots.
    - jklinger410 11y ago
      >As a white person from a white family in the middle of the US, no one that I care about values me based on my salary. I cannot say the same.
dhd415 11y ago
Unfortunately, there are far too many people who confuse self worth with market worth/salary/net worth, etc. I have in the past worked many more hours in higher-stress jobs in order to make more money. I choose now to work fewer hours in a lower-stress job for somewhat less money. The market is free to assign more monetary value to jobs of the former type. I don't consider my worth as a person to be tied to how the market values my job.
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
>In America the market dictates your self worth. As it does everywhere in certain factors. If you aren't attractive to a life partner, you don't get a life partner. Why should a work partner or an employer be different?
- the_af 11y ago
  > If you aren't attractive to a life partner, you don't get a life partner. Why should a work partner or an employer be different? Because you don't necessarily die of starvation or become a burden to the state if you don't get a life partner, unlike what happens if you don't have any source of income?
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    Lack of touch will kill babies. The research wasn't extended any further because it is too harmful for ethics boards to allow. And loneliness is very harmful to one's own health which has been verified by research as well. Compare this to all the forms of welfare that do more than give the basic necessities to not die because they significantly improve qualify of life. We are social creatures, yet when we discuss needs we deserve to have met, people seem to forget that.
    - the_af 11y ago
      Sure, lots of things affect your quality of life, some slightly and some greatly. However, the job market is qualitatively different, which is why it should be held to different standards. Loneliness is definitely harmful, but still many people don't want sexual/life partners. However, everyone needs to eat and have some sort of shelter and access to health services. If you lack money for this, you either die or become a burden to someone else, possibly the state. Coming back to what I believe was the parent's point when they said "in America the market determines your self worth", your worth as a person isn't -- shouldn't be! -- how much money you make or even whether you have a job. That simply doesn't seem right to me.
      - 11y ago
collyw 11y ago
In principle. Have you ever met anyone who got a "good" job through connections?

barney54 11y ago

A lot of people go to college for just that reason--to make themselves more valuable to get a job.

coldtea 11y ago
Mostly white upper+middle class privileged people do that -- those that can afford it.
- ameister14 11y ago
  So non-white poor people go to college for a liberal arts education?
  - coldtea 11y ago
    No, they usually don't go to college at all.
- MajorLOL 11y ago
  Intrestingly its mostly White upper+middle class privileged women - those that can afford it and get the majority of non stem degrees. For the majority, college isn't about an education or job opportunity. It's an extension of the white female youth and self actualization. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/2006084.pdf http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/2006084.pdf

Tactic 11y ago

What is your solution? Personally I don't feel it is difficult to make yourself valuable enough to get "a" job. Maybe not "the" job, but "a" job. Which gives you enough resources to get "the next" job. Which you repeat until you get "the" job. It's the ladder and we climb it. It really boils down to it is the law of the jungle out there and you want something so it is up to you to figure out how to get it. And this is coming from someone that was homeless in the winters of Minnesota. I've been there.