4 ms·

I really like the initiative of UWP but I agree with the author that you should be able to install UWP-apps from any source. Is it really true that you can't?

I really like the initiative of UWP but I agree with the author that you should be able to install UWP-apps from any source. Is it really true that you can't? Maybe it's time for game developers like Epic to support Linux and make gamers choose linux as their desktop, that would probably create a surge of new users and contributions to the linux desktop development and maybe finally provide a "real" alternative. Why I am running Windows is mostly because I can't stand all the issues with Linux desktops and that graphic drivers and games barely exist on the platform, I am loving Valves support though.

mdip 11y ago
Maybe it's time for game developers like Epic to support Linux and make gamers choose Linux as their desktop In the current market, this assumes a few things that simply don't work. Platform adoption drives game software development on the PC side of things. Though some of us do, most people do not purchase a high-end PC exclusively for games. They purchase it to do something they need and might add a high-end graphics adapter to allow them to play games. This often means buying a Windows box. If a game developer released a great game exclusive to Linux, that game would be played by very few people (and would be screwed by all of those graphics issues you mention). It's possible if Steam OS and Valve's platform gains wide adoption that game developers will focus more on Linux, though. The economics of game development seem positively scary to me as a software developer. For major titles, they throw millions of dollars into development in hopes that a game, costing around $50 (and widely pirated) will generate revenue for about a year. And the success of a game is largely determined by factors that are risky, similar to other visual art-forms. Maybe the topic isn't one anyone cares about? That money is flushed down the toilet. Contrasting that with business software which can cost well over $50 and have a lifetime of several years, it doesn't surprise me that game companies look to subscription MMORPGs, paid DLC to existing content and in-game (effectively "paid-for cheats") to make money. Getting them to be willing to spend more to support a one-off platform with existing difficulties supporting high-end graphics scenarios is unlikely. Consider that a business case for an expensive piece of software like Adobe's Creative Cloud could be made far more easily. The software even has native support for Mac OS and Windows, yet they are unwilling to support Linux. That makes me a lot less hopeful we'll ever see great games running in Ubuntu without Wine.
- staticelf 11y ago
  I don't mean that game devs should only release on Linux, but add the support. Otherwise it's the chicken and the egg problem all over again. No one is using linux if they want to play games and game developers do not publish to linux because there is no gamers on the platform.
partiallypro 11y ago
You can install UWP apps from any source, however by default it's not allowed. It is a toggle in the settings though (meant for developers.)
- obsurveyor 11y ago
  And the boogeyman is that Microsoft will automatically patch it out in the future. Microsoft has earned the doubt but I don't think it will happen. Signing every build during development of new products/features would be very onerous, probably even to internal processes at Microsoft.
  - mynameisvlad 11y ago
    It's enabled to allow local and remote debugging, so I highly doubt it's be disabled since it would directly break that key development feature.
    - makomk 11y ago
      They could easily disable it for anyone who doesn't have a copy of Visual Studio and a developer account on the Windows Store, though - and I think they've taken action against use of similar features by non-developers on mobile before now.
      - obsurveyor 11y ago
        "Easily"? I thought it was a system level thing? I don't have to sign in to Windows with my developer account(I only use a local account) to use Visual Studio or access the account MSDN/community stuff.
        mynameisvlad 11y ago
        Yeah, I wouldn't call it an "easy" fix. It's a system-level toggle and IIRC, since Win10 is in no way tied to your dev center account. I believe in Win8/8.1 you had to sign in to create a local signing cert, but that seems to have been removed in Win10 since I switched to developer mode with no real changes other than a radio button choice. Plus, it'd be very hard to accurately determine "correct" usage. You don't have to have a dev center account to develop for Windows. You just need it to distribute your apps. I've made plenty of apps without distributing them and haven't needed to touch dev center. I do believe you need VS to create the apps, but only because the tooling is only available there. There's nothing technically limiting that, though, and simply having VS installed does not indicate you are developing Windows apps. You could be writing Python, for example, or even writing stuff for Arduino using 3rd party extensions.

mdip 11y ago

Maybe it's time for game developers like Epic to support Linux and make gamers choose Linux as their desktop In the current market, this assumes a few things that simply don't work. Platform adoption drives game software development on the PC side of things. Though some of us do, most people do not purchase a high-end PC exclusively for games. They purchase it to do something they need and might add a high-end graphics adapter to allow them to play games. This often means buying a Windows box. If a game developer released a great game exclusive to Linux, that game would be played by very few people (and would be screwed by all of those graphics issues you mention). It's possible if Steam OS and Valve's platform gains wide adoption that game developers will focus more on Linux, though. The economics of game development seem positively scary to me as a software developer. For major titles, they throw millions of dollars into development in hopes that a game, costing around $50 (and widely pirated) will generate revenue for about a year. And the success of a game is largely determined by factors that are risky, similar to other visual art-forms. Maybe the topic isn't one anyone cares about? That money is flushed down the toilet. Contrasting that with business software which can cost well over $50 and have a lifetime of several years, it doesn't surprise me that game companies look to subscription MMORPGs, paid DLC to existing content and in-game (effectively "paid-for cheats") to make money. Getting them to be willing to spend more to support a one-off platform with existing difficulties supporting high-end graphics scenarios is unlikely. Consider that a business case for an expensive piece of software like Adobe's Creative Cloud could be made far more easily. The software even has native support for Mac OS and Windows, yet they are unwilling to support Linux. That makes me a lot less hopeful we'll ever see great games running in Ubuntu without Wine.

staticelf 11y ago
I don't mean that game devs should only release on Linux, but add the support. Otherwise it's the chicken and the egg problem all over again. No one is using linux if they want to play games and game developers do not publish to linux because there is no gamers on the platform.

partiallypro 11y ago

You can install UWP apps from any source, however by default it's not allowed. It is a toggle in the settings though (meant for developers.)

obsurveyor 11y ago
And the boogeyman is that Microsoft will automatically patch it out in the future. Microsoft has earned the doubt but I don't think it will happen. Signing every build during development of new products/features would be very onerous, probably even to internal processes at Microsoft.
- mynameisvlad 11y ago
  It's enabled to allow local and remote debugging, so I highly doubt it's be disabled since it would directly break that key development feature.
  - makomk 11y ago
    They could easily disable it for anyone who doesn't have a copy of Visual Studio and a developer account on the Windows Store, though - and I think they've taken action against use of similar features by non-developers on mobile before now.
    - obsurveyor 11y ago
      "Easily"? I thought it was a system level thing? I don't have to sign in to Windows with my developer account(I only use a local account) to use Visual Studio or access the account MSDN/community stuff.
      - mynameisvlad 11y ago
        Yeah, I wouldn't call it an "easy" fix. It's a system-level toggle and IIRC, since Win10 is in no way tied to your dev center account. I believe in Win8/8.1 you had to sign in to create a local signing cert, but that seems to have been removed in Win10 since I switched to developer mode with no real changes other than a radio button choice. Plus, it'd be very hard to accurately determine "correct" usage. You don't have to have a dev center account to develop for Windows. You just need it to distribute your apps. I've made plenty of apps without distributing them and haven't needed to touch dev center. I do believe you need VS to create the apps, but only because the tooling is only available there. There's nothing technically limiting that, though, and simply having VS installed does not indicate you are developing Windows apps. You could be writing Python, for example, or even writing stuff for Arduino using 3rd party extensions.