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Reminds me of the quote from Rumsfeld. Reformatted by http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/ http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/ The Unknown As we know, There a

by kqr2 17y ago

Reminds me of the quote from Rumsfeld. Reformatted by http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/ http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/ The Unknown As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know We don't know.

tom_rath 17y ago
It always bugged me how Rumsfeld was slagged for that statement. I found it a very clear explanation of the difficulty in assessing a chaotic environment.
- felixc 17y ago
  Agreed. Much like the "series of tubes" comment from Stevens -- that's a perfectly good analogy, and one that technically-inclined people use all the time in some variant like "fat pipes". He said so much other ridiculous stuff that I can't understand why people picked on the one thing that almost made sense.
  - cynicalkane 17y ago
    No, Stevens was mocked because he rambled like Grandpa Simpson about how staffers sent him "an Internet" that took 5 days to reach him because the tubes were clogged. "Series of tubes" is merely the most memorable quote from that bizarre stream of consciousness. And, he was the guy in charge of regulating the Internet in the Senate.
    - lpsmith 17y ago
      Indeed, even though a "series of tubes" is a relevant analogy, it's still plenty obvious that Senator Stevens is clueless with regard to the Internet.
JangoSteve 17y ago
Cool, I had not heard that before, but that's too close for coincidence. I wonder now if maybe someone mentioned that quote to me in the past and it got lodged in my subconscious. Or maybe we independently came to the same conclusions... unlikely but it's happened many times before. At any rate, I've added this reference to the article. Thank you very much for this.
deleted 17y ago
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DLWormwood 17y ago
Both Rumsfeld (and the article) missed the 4th type of knowledge: "unknown knowns." That is, things you know, but you don't realize you know yet. (Either you know it subconsciously, have knowledge from another domain you don't yet realize is appropriate to the job at hand, or you learned it before, forgot it, and only need a small reminder or mental jog to regain it.)
- sailormoon 17y ago
  Don't forget the 5th type, "incorrect known knowns" - things you think you know that are wrong. For example, you could know there's a dictator somewhere, he's got a lot of WMDs and his country's in a bad way, and you have a foolproof plan to quickly go in and fix the place up without much hassle.
- tyler197802198 17y ago
  Think about what you just said. "Unknown knowns" (emphasis added). Therefore, they are knowns, and would fit into the "Shit you know" category.

by kqr2 17y ago

tom_rath 17y ago

It always bugged me how Rumsfeld was slagged for that statement. I found it a very clear explanation of the difficulty in assessing a chaotic environment.

felixc 17y ago
Agreed. Much like the "series of tubes" comment from Stevens -- that's a perfectly good analogy, and one that technically-inclined people use all the time in some variant like "fat pipes". He said so much other ridiculous stuff that I can't understand why people picked on the one thing that almost made sense.
- cynicalkane 17y ago
  No, Stevens was mocked because he rambled like Grandpa Simpson about how staffers sent him "an Internet" that took 5 days to reach him because the tubes were clogged. "Series of tubes" is merely the most memorable quote from that bizarre stream of consciousness. And, he was the guy in charge of regulating the Internet in the Senate.
  - lpsmith 17y ago
    Indeed, even though a "series of tubes" is a relevant analogy, it's still plenty obvious that Senator Stevens is clueless with regard to the Internet.

JangoSteve 17y ago

Cool, I had not heard that before, but that's too close for coincidence. I wonder now if maybe someone mentioned that quote to me in the past and it got lodged in my subconscious. Or maybe we independently came to the same conclusions... unlikely but it's happened many times before. At any rate, I've added this reference to the article. Thank you very much for this.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

DLWormwood 17y ago

Both Rumsfeld (and the article) missed the 4th type of knowledge: "unknown knowns." That is, things you know, but you don't realize you know yet. (Either you know it subconsciously, have knowledge from another domain you don't yet realize is appropriate to the job at hand, or you learned it before, forgot it, and only need a small reminder or mental jog to regain it.)

sailormoon 17y ago
Don't forget the 5th type, "incorrect known knowns" - things you think you know that are wrong. For example, you could know there's a dictator somewhere, he's got a lot of WMDs and his country's in a bad way, and you have a foolproof plan to quickly go in and fix the place up without much hassle.
tyler197802198 17y ago
Think about what you just said. "Unknown knowns" (emphasis added). Therefore, they are knowns, and would fit into the "Shit you know" category.