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shareholder capitalism is a noxious falsehood that has very unfortunately been enshrined in our current interpretation of the law. this should not be regarded

shareholder capitalism is a noxious falsehood that has very unfortunately been enshrined in our current interpretation of the law. this should not be regarded as a baseline truth nor a desirable transitional state. it is a bad idea that we must not succumb to. companies are multi-faceted entities with many different stakeholders. the workers are a 100% necessary stakeholder and the company cannot operate without them.

gozur88 11y ago
And... so what? Sure, the company needs employees, but it doesn't need the people who are there. What's noxious is the whole idea of "stakeholders", as if working somewhere gives you some kind of ownership. If you want to own your job you need to be self employed. If I hire someone to cut my grass is he now a "stakeholder" who needs to be consulted when I sell my house?
- metaphorm 11y ago
  your house is not a company. your lawnmower is not an employee, he's a vendor.
  - gozur88 11y ago
    I own my house, the same way I would own a company. And I pay the lawn guy to do a job. I don't see the big difference.
    - metaphorm 11y ago
      its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you. a company is an organization of humans. a house is an object. You purchase a service from the lawn care vendor. You are their customer. You are not the employer of the guy who mows the lawn. That guy is either self-employed or he might be the employee of a lawncare company.
      - gozur88 11y ago
        >its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you.. Oh, THANK YOU for the scraps of information you're about to impart. >a company is an organization of humans. No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. It may do nothing and have no full-time employees. It may own other companies who do nothing and have no full-time employees. The "organization of humans" isn't the company. Those people are employees who work for the company. I know it's in fashion for CEOs to say "we are the company", but that's a polite fiction you tell people to motivate them. If you have any doubt this is true, watch what happens when the company doesn't need them any more. >You purchase a service from the lawn care vendor. You are their customer. You are not the employer of the guy who mows the lawn. That guy is either self-employed or he might be the employee of a lawncare company. While that's true from a legal perspective, it's a meaningless distinction. I'm paying the guy to do a job. If I stop paying him to do a job, it has an impact on his life. In leftist parlance that makes him a "stakeholder", by which they mean he ought to have some input into the decisions I make as the owner.
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        > > a company is an organization of humans. > No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. A company is a generic term in English for any (particularly business) organization. It includes things that do not have distinct legal identity from the persons comprising the organization. A corporation is specifically a particular form of company, distinguished by distinct legal personhood and other particular legal treatments.
        gozur88 11y ago
        Common usage for the word "company" isn't really relevant to this discussion.
        dllthomas 11y ago
pjlegato 11y ago
Many factories are completely or almost automated now, especially in Japan. This trend will only grow larger in the future as robotics improves. Even the repair and maintenance of the robots will soon be done by other robots. AI is already doing the same thing for many white collar jobs. The company of the future will indeed operate without workers.

gozur88 11y ago

And... so what? Sure, the company needs employees, but it doesn't need the people who are there. What's noxious is the whole idea of "stakeholders", as if working somewhere gives you some kind of ownership. If you want to own your job you need to be self employed. If I hire someone to cut my grass is he now a "stakeholder" who needs to be consulted when I sell my house?

metaphorm 11y ago
your house is not a company. your lawnmower is not an employee, he's a vendor.
- gozur88 11y ago
  I own my house, the same way I would own a company. And I pay the lawn guy to do a job. I don't see the big difference.
  - metaphorm 11y ago
    its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you. a company is an organization of humans. a house is an object. You purchase a service from the lawn care vendor. You are their customer. You are not the employer of the guy who mows the lawn. That guy is either self-employed or he might be the employee of a lawncare company.
    - gozur88 11y ago
      >its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you.. Oh, THANK YOU for the scraps of information you're about to impart. >a company is an organization of humans. No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. It may do nothing and have no full-time employees. It may own other companies who do nothing and have no full-time employees. The "organization of humans" isn't the company. Those people are employees who work for the company. I know it's in fashion for CEOs to say "we are the company", but that's a polite fiction you tell people to motivate them. If you have any doubt this is true, watch what happens when the company doesn't need them any more. >You purchase a service from the lawn care vendor. You are their customer. You are not the employer of the guy who mows the lawn. That guy is either self-employed or he might be the employee of a lawncare company. While that's true from a legal perspective, it's a meaningless distinction. I'm paying the guy to do a job. If I stop paying him to do a job, it has an impact on his life. In leftist parlance that makes him a "stakeholder", by which they mean he ought to have some input into the decisions I make as the owner.
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        > > a company is an organization of humans. > No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. A company is a generic term in English for any (particularly business) organization. It includes things that do not have distinct legal identity from the persons comprising the organization. A corporation is specifically a particular form of company, distinguished by distinct legal personhood and other particular legal treatments.
        gozur88 11y ago
        Common usage for the word "company" isn't really relevant to this discussion.
        dllthomas 11y ago

pjlegato 11y ago

Many factories are completely or almost automated now, especially in Japan. This trend will only grow larger in the future as robotics improves. Even the repair and maintenance of the robots will soon be done by other robots. AI is already doing the same thing for many white collar jobs. The company of the future will indeed operate without workers.