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Here are BLS numbers on profession by gender and age: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat09.htm http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat09.htm The legal profession has actually

by eli 11y ago

Here are BLS numbers on profession by gender and age: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat09.htm http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat09.htm The legal profession has actually made significant progress in closing the gender gap. Tech has a problem with gender. I'm not sure it's helpful to point out that other fields also have similar or even worse problems.

13thLetter 11y ago
> Tech has a problem with gender. I'm not sure it's helpful to point out that other fields also have similar or even worse problems. It kind of is. When there are other fields which both a) employ more people and b) have a much larger "problem," it's valid to ask why the laser-like focus on tech.
- DanBC 11y ago
  >why the laser-like focus on tech This is a tech site. It's going to focus on tech wages. Other sites are focussing on the gap in motor repair or restaurant chefs or whatever.
  - 13thLetter 11y ago
    It's not just tech sites, though, which is what I'm getting at. Major politicians and newspapers constantly go on at great lengths about alleged gender problems in tech. Do they talk nearly as much about, say, the imbalance towards women in education? I'm going to assert that they do not.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      [gender imbalance education] and the name of various newspapers returns many many hits. EG https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education+inurl%3Anytimes https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education... Although using WSJ proves you right: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education+inurl%3Awsj https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education...
      - 13thLetter 11y ago
        I don't think this search is focused enough to be useful (in either direction.) For example, the first page of NYT results includes stories about a lack of male teachers, but also about gender imbalances against women in labs, varying educational outcomes between boys and girls, and China's one-child policy.
    - eli 11y ago
      I don't see what you're getting at. Like, is there a conspiracy against the tech industry? I really doubt it. I think tech jobs are very desirable and the gender imbalance very pronounced so it's a natural focal point.
      - 13thLetter 11y ago
        > Like, is there a conspiracy against the tech industry? I really doubt it. Who said there's a conspiracy? There's no more a conspiracy against the tech industry than, say, people who vote Democratic are a conspiracy against the Republican Party. It's just a large number of people with similar opinions and self-interest. Unfortunately, in this case the emergent result of that large number of people acting in their own opinion and interest is a lot of unjust attacks on innocent people, dismantling of valuable concepts such as meritocracy, and a distorted view of the industry in the popular imagination.
- eli 11y ago
  I focus on tech because it's the industry where I work and the one I'm most familiar with and the one where I think we really have the ability to make a difference. Pointing out other problems in other fields does not absolve tech industry of any responsibility.
caseysoftware 11y ago
> I'm not sure it's helpful to point out that other fields also have similar or even worse problems. I think it goes to the motivation: - If the motivation is to encourage gender balance/equality, then looking at and comparing with other fields is perfectly reasonable. - If the motivation is that tech is a high paid yet incredibly low (physical) risk field, then it is self-serving to care about gender balance/equality here and not in other areas. For example, I know a female completion engineer (oil rigs) who makes stupid amounts of money but lives as the lone woman on an oil platform for weeks at a time and smells horrible for days after. She knows it's an incredibly risky job and that if something goes wrong (rare but happens), odds aren't great for her. When she talks to women in engineering programs, she's openly sneered at.
- eli 11y ago
  > then it is self-serving to care about gender balance/equality here and not in other areas. I do not follow this logic. I particularly care about problems in the tech industry because that's the industry I work in. Does that make me self-serving? I dunno, maybe, but I still think it's the right thing to do. I care about gender imbalance in the oil industry too, but unlike software engineering I have very little insight into hiring people on oil rigs.
gozur88 11y ago
>Tech has a problem with gender. Only if you make the assumption fewer women are in tech because of sexism.
- eli 11y ago
  That's certainly a factor.

by eli 11y ago

13thLetter 11y ago

> Tech has a problem with gender. I'm not sure it's helpful to point out that other fields also have similar or even worse problems. It kind of is. When there are other fields which both a) employ more people and b) have a much larger "problem," it's valid to ask why the laser-like focus on tech.

DanBC 11y ago
>why the laser-like focus on tech This is a tech site. It's going to focus on tech wages. Other sites are focussing on the gap in motor repair or restaurant chefs or whatever.
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  It's not just tech sites, though, which is what I'm getting at. Major politicians and newspapers constantly go on at great lengths about alleged gender problems in tech. Do they talk nearly as much about, say, the imbalance towards women in education? I'm going to assert that they do not.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    [gender imbalance education] and the name of various newspapers returns many many hits. EG https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education+inurl%3Anytimes https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education... Although using WSJ proves you right: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education+inurl%3Awsj https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gender+imbalance+education...
    - 13thLetter 11y ago
      I don't think this search is focused enough to be useful (in either direction.) For example, the first page of NYT results includes stories about a lack of male teachers, but also about gender imbalances against women in labs, varying educational outcomes between boys and girls, and China's one-child policy.
  - eli 11y ago
    I don't see what you're getting at. Like, is there a conspiracy against the tech industry? I really doubt it. I think tech jobs are very desirable and the gender imbalance very pronounced so it's a natural focal point.
    - 13thLetter 11y ago
      > Like, is there a conspiracy against the tech industry? I really doubt it. Who said there's a conspiracy? There's no more a conspiracy against the tech industry than, say, people who vote Democratic are a conspiracy against the Republican Party. It's just a large number of people with similar opinions and self-interest. Unfortunately, in this case the emergent result of that large number of people acting in their own opinion and interest is a lot of unjust attacks on innocent people, dismantling of valuable concepts such as meritocracy, and a distorted view of the industry in the popular imagination.
eli 11y ago
I focus on tech because it's the industry where I work and the one I'm most familiar with and the one where I think we really have the ability to make a difference. Pointing out other problems in other fields does not absolve tech industry of any responsibility.

caseysoftware 11y ago

> I'm not sure it's helpful to point out that other fields also have similar or even worse problems. I think it goes to the motivation: - If the motivation is to encourage gender balance/equality, then looking at and comparing with other fields is perfectly reasonable. - If the motivation is that tech is a high paid yet incredibly low (physical) risk field, then it is self-serving to care about gender balance/equality here and not in other areas. For example, I know a female completion engineer (oil rigs) who makes stupid amounts of money but lives as the lone woman on an oil platform for weeks at a time and smells horrible for days after. She knows it's an incredibly risky job and that if something goes wrong (rare but happens), odds aren't great for her. When she talks to women in engineering programs, she's openly sneered at.

eli 11y ago
> then it is self-serving to care about gender balance/equality here and not in other areas. I do not follow this logic. I particularly care about problems in the tech industry because that's the industry I work in. Does that make me self-serving? I dunno, maybe, but I still think it's the right thing to do. I care about gender imbalance in the oil industry too, but unlike software engineering I have very little insight into hiring people on oil rigs.

gozur88 11y ago

>Tech has a problem with gender. Only if you make the assumption fewer women are in tech because of sexism.

eli 11y ago
That's certainly a factor.