5 ms·

More I see cross-engineer that do backend to fronend and more I see problem. There is no way a database guru can create a super nice UI with CSS and JavaScript.

by daok 11y ago

More I see cross-engineer that do backend to fronend and more I see problem. There is no way a database guru can create a super nice UI with CSS and JavaScript. Same thing for an expert in JavaScript and web cannot be also an expert in AI, database and xyz stuff. I am all about having people touching a little bit of everything, but at the end, everyone has an expertise and they should do 80% of their time there. Multi-disciplinary is over preached and create average quality across a system instead of having best practices and efficient development everywhere.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Agree. I keep seeing job postings requiring (combined roles): * Must do backend * Must do frontend * Must do devops * Must do database schemas like a wizard * Must know all of AWS inside and out * Do you like customer support? You'll be doing customer support. * You'll be doing marketing disguised as engineering blog posts. Completely unrealistic.
- cwilkes 11y ago
  When I see DevOps called out I know that they expect 50% more work for free out of employees. Companies of course will deny it and imply that you're only working that much more as you are too stupid to write code without bugs and not doing enough automation. I guess we will see if Etsy's site changes much over the next year (maybe they have been doing that for a while now) or if it remains stagnant as no one wants to change anything.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- acheron 11y ago
  Dunno about startups, where it probably is just "we're going to overwork you", but in big companies a posting like this is often a "hire Bob" situation -- Bob worked at the company for many years, picked up a bunch of different skills and was working on different projects. Bob leaves. They only have the one opening to bring someone on, so they want to hire someone exactly like Bob, and just throw up a job posting with all of Bob's skills.
  - falcolas 11y ago
    Or, renew someone's work visa. Requirements are that such a job is made publicly available... but no outside hires are made, they just use it to renew the existing engineer's visa. Seen this twice (well, applied for two positions and found out this was the case why I wasn't considered).
    - mynameisvlad 11y ago
      As broken as the visa system here is, I don't believe any short term visa (one that would need to be renewed) requires a job posting, for initial or renewal. They're based on other factors, and generally just require an application and for the candidate to be eligible. The only time a job posting had to be created for me was for PERM, for the green card process.
- commenter1239 11y ago
  When I see the following terms, I usually move on: Guru, Ninja, Wizard, Rockstar. I am none of these.
  - estefan 11y ago
    Agree. Nor do I want to associate with people who think they are.
    - fapjacks 11y ago
      This right here.
- maxxxxx 11y ago
  And in the interview you need to reverse a binary tree.
chrisbennet 11y ago
"Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Much better to suck at everything equally. I have so many hours a week. I only get paid for 40 of them.
- akavi 11y ago
  Just because a famous author said it doesn't make it true. Specialization is for people living in societies. Modern civilization would never have come into existence and cannot continue to exist without specialization.
  - chrisbennet 11y ago
    I was half joking but you're right. That said, for pioneers, explorers and engineers, breadth of experience is very helpful.
- draw_down 11y ago
  "A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
johansch 11y ago
Being very-multi-disciplinary makes sense for development managers (who manage a team of specialized people), not for individual contributors, at least not in the common case.
colmvp 11y ago
I agree with the sentiment that people should specialize and spend the majority of the time working what they are proficient at. That said, I personally like working with engineers who at least try to participate in the design/front-end process instead of just passing off to me like they don't give a shit. Their opinions can be informative and it's also a way for me to help teach them a thing or two. Plus sometimes knowing small UI things can help alleviate my workload so that I'm not doing really tiny tasks associated with a project that's primarily driven by a backend engineer. As a longtime designer/UI guy, I have no illusions of ever being an elite backend programmer. But I actually enjoy learning backend on the side. I feel like it's a way of me having a better understanding how the teams entire codebase works and allows me to have a slightly better understanding of what my team members discuss during meetings. And even for side projects, it's just empowering to be able to implement a product idea from end to end (even though yes, it's likely not stellar code). Overall, just having a growing understanding of how it all connects together is truly rewarding.

by daok 11y ago

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Agree. I keep seeing job postings requiring (combined roles): * Must do backend * Must do frontend * Must do devops * Must do database schemas like a wizard * Must know all of AWS inside and out * Do you like customer support? You'll be doing customer support. * You'll be doing marketing disguised as engineering blog posts. Completely unrealistic.

cwilkes 11y ago
When I see DevOps called out I know that they expect 50% more work for free out of employees. Companies of course will deny it and imply that you're only working that much more as you are too stupid to write code without bugs and not doing enough automation. I guess we will see if Etsy's site changes much over the next year (maybe they have been doing that for a while now) or if it remains stagnant as no one wants to change anything.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
acheron 11y ago
Dunno about startups, where it probably is just "we're going to overwork you", but in big companies a posting like this is often a "hire Bob" situation -- Bob worked at the company for many years, picked up a bunch of different skills and was working on different projects. Bob leaves. They only have the one opening to bring someone on, so they want to hire someone exactly like Bob, and just throw up a job posting with all of Bob's skills.
- falcolas 11y ago
  Or, renew someone's work visa. Requirements are that such a job is made publicly available... but no outside hires are made, they just use it to renew the existing engineer's visa. Seen this twice (well, applied for two positions and found out this was the case why I wasn't considered).
  - mynameisvlad 11y ago
    As broken as the visa system here is, I don't believe any short term visa (one that would need to be renewed) requires a job posting, for initial or renewal. They're based on other factors, and generally just require an application and for the candidate to be eligible. The only time a job posting had to be created for me was for PERM, for the green card process.
commenter1239 11y ago
When I see the following terms, I usually move on: Guru, Ninja, Wizard, Rockstar. I am none of these.
- estefan 11y ago
  Agree. Nor do I want to associate with people who think they are.
  - fapjacks 11y ago
    This right here.
maxxxxx 11y ago
And in the interview you need to reverse a binary tree.

chrisbennet 11y ago

"Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Much better to suck at everything equally. I have so many hours a week. I only get paid for 40 of them.
akavi 11y ago
Just because a famous author said it doesn't make it true. Specialization is for people living in societies. Modern civilization would never have come into existence and cannot continue to exist without specialization.
- chrisbennet 11y ago
  I was half joking but you're right. That said, for pioneers, explorers and engineers, breadth of experience is very helpful.
draw_down 11y ago
"A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

johansch 11y ago

Being very-multi-disciplinary makes sense for development managers (who manage a team of specialized people), not for individual contributors, at least not in the common case.

colmvp 11y ago

I agree with the sentiment that people should specialize and spend the majority of the time working what they are proficient at. That said, I personally like working with engineers who at least try to participate in the design/front-end process instead of just passing off to me like they don't give a shit. Their opinions can be informative and it's also a way for me to help teach them a thing or two. Plus sometimes knowing small UI things can help alleviate my workload so that I'm not doing really tiny tasks associated with a project that's primarily driven by a backend engineer. As a longtime designer/UI guy, I have no illusions of ever being an elite backend programmer. But I actually enjoy learning backend on the side. I feel like it's a way of me having a better understanding how the teams entire codebase works and allows me to have a slightly better understanding of what my team members discuss during meetings. And even for side projects, it's just empowering to be able to implement a product idea from end to end (even though yes, it's likely not stellar code). Overall, just having a growing understanding of how it all connects together is truly rewarding.