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What GPL licensed software are they actually infringing upon? The linked post[1] says they found mentions of systemd, but does the firmware actually contain a l

by dmm 11y ago

What GPL licensed software are they actually infringing upon? The linked post[1] says they found mentions of systemd, but does the firmware actually contain a linux kernel? I don't see anything that looks like a kernel in the file listing. Also if the firmware is properly signed delivering it over http shouldn't matter, right? [1] https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/02/bmw-are-sending-their-software-updates-une=ncrypted/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/02/bmw-are-sending-their-softw...

noselasd 11y ago
The specific update here is just a delta update, and doesn't contain the entire firmware. But it does contain shared libraries built for running on a linux system, so it stands to reason there's linux kernel running somewhere there. (On that note - have someone sent a similar request to Tesla - they've at least semi-officially said they're running Linux)
- cynix 11y ago
  > (On that note - have someone sent a similar request to Tesla - they've at least semi-officially said they're running Linux) Yes, people have sent requests to Tesla, and they continue to ignore these requests to this day. See http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/archive/index.php/t-10748.html http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/archive/index.php/t-10748.htm...
- dTal 11y ago
  >semi-officially said they're running Linux The Model S was independently confirmed to be running Linux 2 years ago: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28185-Successful-connection-on-the-Model-S-internal-Ethernet-network/page9?p=608435&viewfull=1#post608435 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28185-Successf...
lucaspiller 11y ago
Apparently Mini (also made by BMW) has a similar update structure, and that runs QNX, so it's likely this does too: http://rene.rebe.de/2013-03-31/mini-connected-runs-qnx/ http://rene.rebe.de/2013-03-31/mini-connected-runs-qnx/
- m00dy 11y ago
  check sum and signing are different methodologies.
- Matthias247 11y ago
  It's indeed a Linux system, and probably one of the first that BMW brought into market. It might also use GENIVI software components, which is an alliance for automotive linux software. The carmakers are typically developing multiple systems in parallel by different suppliers. And even if they look similar from a customer perspective they might have been developed completely seperatly.
Namidairo 11y ago
A little bit of digging shows a 2014 BMW i3 claiming to run 2.6.32-28 in it's licences section.(STLinux) However on the other hand there are numerous references of it having Tegra in media too...
- sjwright 11y ago
  I suspect that modern BMWs have a multitude of interconnected computers potentially running different kernels. It wouldn't surprise me if different systems are running entirely different architectures.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- tomp 11y ago
  The payload can be delivered unencrypted, as long as the public key used to check the authenticity of the payload was provided throught a safe channel.
- ryan-c 11y ago
  > If you have already MitM'ed someone, you can also modify the signature to match the payload. Not without the signing key.
- daveloyall 11y ago
  > You can also modify the checksum to match the payload. FTFY. :) I don't know yet if these files are signed or even checksum'd. If I get to the bottom of this discussion without finding that someone has downloaded the .bin and checked, I'll hang my head and get back to the day job.
- YouYouMeMe 11y ago
  Such a low understanding of tech on a site called "Hacker" News.
  - dang 11y ago
    > Such a low understanding of tech on a site called "Hacker" News Rudely dismissive comments are not allowed here. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't. If you know more than someone else does, help them learn. If you can't or don't want to do that, please don't comment.

by dmm 11y ago

noselasd 11y ago

The specific update here is just a delta update, and doesn't contain the entire firmware. But it does contain shared libraries built for running on a linux system, so it stands to reason there's linux kernel running somewhere there. (On that note - have someone sent a similar request to Tesla - they've at least semi-officially said they're running Linux)

cynix 11y ago
> (On that note - have someone sent a similar request to Tesla - they've at least semi-officially said they're running Linux) Yes, people have sent requests to Tesla, and they continue to ignore these requests to this day. See http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/archive/index.php/t-10748.html http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/archive/index.php/t-10748.htm...
dTal 11y ago
>semi-officially said they're running Linux The Model S was independently confirmed to be running Linux 2 years ago: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28185-Successful-connection-on-the-Model-S-internal-Ethernet-network/page9?p=608435&viewfull=1#post608435 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28185-Successf...

lucaspiller 11y ago

Apparently Mini (also made by BMW) has a similar update structure, and that runs QNX, so it's likely this does too: http://rene.rebe.de/2013-03-31/mini-connected-runs-qnx/ http://rene.rebe.de/2013-03-31/mini-connected-runs-qnx/

m00dy 11y ago
check sum and signing are different methodologies.
Matthias247 11y ago
It's indeed a Linux system, and probably one of the first that BMW brought into market. It might also use GENIVI software components, which is an alliance for automotive linux software. The carmakers are typically developing multiple systems in parallel by different suppliers. And even if they look similar from a customer perspective they might have been developed completely seperatly.

Namidairo 11y ago

A little bit of digging shows a 2014 BMW i3 claiming to run 2.6.32-28 in it's licences section.(STLinux) However on the other hand there are numerous references of it having Tegra in media too...

sjwright 11y ago
I suspect that modern BMWs have a multitude of interconnected computers potentially running different kernels. It wouldn't surprise me if different systems are running entirely different architectures.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

tomp 11y ago
The payload can be delivered unencrypted, as long as the public key used to check the authenticity of the payload was provided throught a safe channel.
ryan-c 11y ago
> If you have already MitM'ed someone, you can also modify the signature to match the payload. Not without the signing key.
daveloyall 11y ago
> You can also modify the checksum to match the payload. FTFY. :) I don't know yet if these files are signed or even checksum'd. If I get to the bottom of this discussion without finding that someone has downloaded the .bin and checked, I'll hang my head and get back to the day job.
YouYouMeMe 11y ago
Such a low understanding of tech on a site called "Hacker" News.
- dang 11y ago
  > Such a low understanding of tech on a site called "Hacker" News Rudely dismissive comments are not allowed here. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't. If you know more than someone else does, help them learn. If you can't or don't want to do that, please don't comment.