5 ms·

I don't know if there is any statistical correlation or not, but (as the article alludes to) it does seem that super intelligent people are more prone to some k

by JonoBB 11y ago

I don't know if there is any statistical correlation or not, but (as the article alludes to) it does seem that super intelligent people are more prone to some kind of other deficiencies, and particularly social issues. Can anyone shed more light on whether this is true or not? Anecdotally, one of my best friends (extremely intelligent, Cum Laude engineering student) went "off the rails" a few years after graduating. I always had the feeling that he was seeing things 5 steps ahead of everyone else, and had such an extremely deep insight into every day things. I think it just became too much for him to handle.

benevol 11y ago
> he was seeing things 5 steps ahead of everyone else, and had such an extremely deep insight into every day things I had a period when I experienced this for some time. I can confirm it's deeply frustrating. You see all the madness very clearly. You see theoretical solutions to everything, know it could have been different. But you also understand you're quite alone and not influential enough. Generally, you're better off being average.
- neikos 11y ago
  I would also add that you don't necessarily 'know' solutions, but rather make sense of the limited input you have and try to extrapolate in that. Obviously this fails hard at human interactions, which makes this the frustrating part. How to think of an alternative when the 'right' solution seems so beautifully simple?
Majestic121 11y ago
The article actually addresses the issue, saying that " observations have shown that essentially all “primitive” cognitive abilities—short and long term memory, the use of language, the use of quantities and numbers, the visualization of geometric relationships, pattern recognition, and so on—are positively correlated." So, in a nutshell : on average, being super smart at math means you are probably verbally smart too.
ZenoArrow 11y ago
That touches on the issue I had with the article as well. > "But psychometric studies, which seek to measure the nature of intelligence, paint a different picture. Millions of observations have shown that essentially all “primitive” cognitive abilities—short and long term memory, the use of language, the use of quantities and numbers, the visualization of geometric relationships, pattern recognition, and so on—are positively correlated." Whilst it might have been "proven" in the lab, that's not what is apparent with day to day experiences. If we split 'intelligence' into 'academic intelligence' and 'emotional intelligence', it's rare to find someone who excels with both. It's not just a matter of capacity, our abilities are a reflection of what we devote our energy to. To explain why it's important to make the distinction between different types of intelligence... to put it simply, academic intelligence makes a difference in abstract thinking, developing new ideas and refining existing ones. However, emotional intelligence guides us on how best to spend our time. Emotional intelligence is a close relative to wisdom. We need it to guide us. If not, we'll end up doing things because we can, rather than whether we should, and with the power of super-intelligence that's something we'll need more than ever.
compactmani 11y ago
This is not at all my observation. I've noticed that the uncommonly (technically-scientifically) intelligent people I've been exposed to tended to lead very socially balanced and normal lives. They have also been some of the funniest people I've met too.
- kbart 11y ago
  In my experience too, sense of humor correlates with broad intelligence much more than social awkwardness does. On the other hand, I know extremely gifted people in some narrow area plus few related (i.e. STEM subjects) that cannot even lead normal life without somebody else taking care of them and are below average on different subjects (i.e. languages). I think the problem is, that we don't even know, what intelligence is and how many different forms it has.
nibs 11y ago
The only health problems associated with higher intelligence (as opposed to either low intelligence or completely independent of intelligence) are [1] high functioning autism, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Two can be treated with pills when they are disruptive with relatively high success, and the other (Autism) is to me not a particularly net negative condition when high functioning (several immediately family members have it, so this is anecdotal). So the only byproduct of selecting for these genes, is it would compound the likelihood of one of these conditions. It sounds like your friend was in a period of disintegration [2]. Happens to most gifted people at some point early in life. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12122545/Intelligent-people-are-genetically-predisposed-to-be-healthier-experts-find.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/1212254... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration
- aidenn0 11y ago
  Note that a combined diagnosis of schizophrenia and biopolar, has very high rates of suicide (over 10% if left untreated).
- ultimape 11y ago
  "high functioning" kind of autism is a misnomer - even if you aren't the kind that bangs their head on the floor / avoided being non-verbal, life can be quite challenging. I agree that it isn't necessarily a net negative, but the success of an individual on the spectrum seems highly conditional on life circumstances. The thing is, genetics for autism also seem to produce people with adhd (reciently rolled into the spectrum) and generally coincide with decreased ability in executive function - leading to the absent minded professor syndrome. It also has a high prevalence of sensory processing disorder which can lead to a lot of issues with dealing with day-to-day life. Even in cases where people with ASD happen to be of above average intelligence, it doesn't necessarily lead to success. I score 99% percentile in almost all academic areas, but I can't even feed myself right now. I'm functionally retarded when it comes to interacting with people half the time and the high-stress that comes from normal every day things means I might as well be agoraphobic. Under the right conditions I have no doubt that I can flourish. I'm actively engaged in getting my life back on track (grew up in poverty, diagnosed late in life) but there's a reason that suicide rates and general unemployment levels for people on the spectrum are astronomical compared to the general population.
crispyambulance 11y ago
Intelligence, in real life, is quite a nebulous thing. We can perhaps measure an IQ number, observe that someone is "bright", or remark upon their achievements, but while all these things are "correlated", it is a loose correlation with many exceptions. I am not convinced that producing people with high IQ's and declaring them "intelligent super-humans" will result in anything dramatic, unless that is followed up with a lifetime of enrichment: superb education, good parenting, and formative life-experiences. I do volunteer work in an adult literacy program and, learning disabilities aside, some of these folks are truly very intelligent and fully capable but have been set-back in childhood and young adulthood because of circumstances beyond their control and utterly unrelated to genetics. If we really want to create super-intelligent beings, there's a "low tech" way to do that will be far more effective than genetic engineering: treat education as a mission-critical priority and make sure kids are taken care of.
carsongross 11y ago
I think that one thing that can eventually hurt very smart people is that the world is much more chaotic and complex than even they can handle, which can lead to being overwhelmed/depressed/exasperated. Our ancestors were not so benighted as we have been told: ignorance is, indeed, bliss.
dikdik 11y ago
I believe a lot of these social issues are due to lack of understanding between society vs. a "genius". But if 20%+ of the population are on the same wave length, they may not feel so alienated. An individual's "social issues" may not be a problem for 20%+ of the population, so it may not longer be an issue.
- CM30 11y ago
  This is a good point, although if being intelligent is correlated with being on the autistic spectrum in any way, then it doesn't really matter how many people have the same level of intelligence/condition/personality. As someone who's on the spectrum myself, I can say that you could put ten or so people with high functionality autism or what not in a room together and they'd still find it difficult to socialise.

by JonoBB 11y ago

benevol 11y ago

> he was seeing things 5 steps ahead of everyone else, and had such an extremely deep insight into every day things I had a period when I experienced this for some time. I can confirm it's deeply frustrating. You see all the madness very clearly. You see theoretical solutions to everything, know it could have been different. But you also understand you're quite alone and not influential enough. Generally, you're better off being average.

neikos 11y ago
I would also add that you don't necessarily 'know' solutions, but rather make sense of the limited input you have and try to extrapolate in that. Obviously this fails hard at human interactions, which makes this the frustrating part. How to think of an alternative when the 'right' solution seems so beautifully simple?

Majestic121 11y ago

The article actually addresses the issue, saying that " observations have shown that essentially all “primitive” cognitive abilities—short and long term memory, the use of language, the use of quantities and numbers, the visualization of geometric relationships, pattern recognition, and so on—are positively correlated." So, in a nutshell : on average, being super smart at math means you are probably verbally smart too.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

That touches on the issue I had with the article as well. > "But psychometric studies, which seek to measure the nature of intelligence, paint a different picture. Millions of observations have shown that essentially all “primitive” cognitive abilities—short and long term memory, the use of language, the use of quantities and numbers, the visualization of geometric relationships, pattern recognition, and so on—are positively correlated." Whilst it might have been "proven" in the lab, that's not what is apparent with day to day experiences. If we split 'intelligence' into 'academic intelligence' and 'emotional intelligence', it's rare to find someone who excels with both. It's not just a matter of capacity, our abilities are a reflection of what we devote our energy to. To explain why it's important to make the distinction between different types of intelligence... to put it simply, academic intelligence makes a difference in abstract thinking, developing new ideas and refining existing ones. However, emotional intelligence guides us on how best to spend our time. Emotional intelligence is a close relative to wisdom. We need it to guide us. If not, we'll end up doing things because we can, rather than whether we should, and with the power of super-intelligence that's something we'll need more than ever.

compactmani 11y ago

This is not at all my observation. I've noticed that the uncommonly (technically-scientifically) intelligent people I've been exposed to tended to lead very socially balanced and normal lives. They have also been some of the funniest people I've met too.

kbart 11y ago
In my experience too, sense of humor correlates with broad intelligence much more than social awkwardness does. On the other hand, I know extremely gifted people in some narrow area plus few related (i.e. STEM subjects) that cannot even lead normal life without somebody else taking care of them and are below average on different subjects (i.e. languages). I think the problem is, that we don't even know, what intelligence is and how many different forms it has.

nibs 11y ago

The only health problems associated with higher intelligence (as opposed to either low intelligence or completely independent of intelligence) are [1] high functioning autism, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Two can be treated with pills when they are disruptive with relatively high success, and the other (Autism) is to me not a particularly net negative condition when high functioning (several immediately family members have it, so this is anecdotal). So the only byproduct of selecting for these genes, is it would compound the likelihood of one of these conditions. It sounds like your friend was in a period of disintegration [2]. Happens to most gifted people at some point early in life. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12122545/Intelligent-people-are-genetically-predisposed-to-be-healthier-experts-find.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/1212254... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration

aidenn0 11y ago
Note that a combined diagnosis of schizophrenia and biopolar, has very high rates of suicide (over 10% if left untreated).
ultimape 11y ago
"high functioning" kind of autism is a misnomer - even if you aren't the kind that bangs their head on the floor / avoided being non-verbal, life can be quite challenging. I agree that it isn't necessarily a net negative, but the success of an individual on the spectrum seems highly conditional on life circumstances. The thing is, genetics for autism also seem to produce people with adhd (reciently rolled into the spectrum) and generally coincide with decreased ability in executive function - leading to the absent minded professor syndrome. It also has a high prevalence of sensory processing disorder which can lead to a lot of issues with dealing with day-to-day life. Even in cases where people with ASD happen to be of above average intelligence, it doesn't necessarily lead to success. I score 99% percentile in almost all academic areas, but I can't even feed myself right now. I'm functionally retarded when it comes to interacting with people half the time and the high-stress that comes from normal every day things means I might as well be agoraphobic. Under the right conditions I have no doubt that I can flourish. I'm actively engaged in getting my life back on track (grew up in poverty, diagnosed late in life) but there's a reason that suicide rates and general unemployment levels for people on the spectrum are astronomical compared to the general population.

crispyambulance 11y ago

Intelligence, in real life, is quite a nebulous thing. We can perhaps measure an IQ number, observe that someone is "bright", or remark upon their achievements, but while all these things are "correlated", it is a loose correlation with many exceptions. I am not convinced that producing people with high IQ's and declaring them "intelligent super-humans" will result in anything dramatic, unless that is followed up with a lifetime of enrichment: superb education, good parenting, and formative life-experiences. I do volunteer work in an adult literacy program and, learning disabilities aside, some of these folks are truly very intelligent and fully capable but have been set-back in childhood and young adulthood because of circumstances beyond their control and utterly unrelated to genetics. If we really want to create super-intelligent beings, there's a "low tech" way to do that will be far more effective than genetic engineering: treat education as a mission-critical priority and make sure kids are taken care of.

carsongross 11y ago

I think that one thing that can eventually hurt very smart people is that the world is much more chaotic and complex than even they can handle, which can lead to being overwhelmed/depressed/exasperated. Our ancestors were not so benighted as we have been told: ignorance is, indeed, bliss.

dikdik 11y ago

I believe a lot of these social issues are due to lack of understanding between society vs. a "genius". But if 20%+ of the population are on the same wave length, they may not feel so alienated. An individual's "social issues" may not be a problem for 20%+ of the population, so it may not longer be an issue.

CM30 11y ago
This is a good point, although if being intelligent is correlated with being on the autistic spectrum in any way, then it doesn't really matter how many people have the same level of intelligence/condition/personality. As someone who's on the spectrum myself, I can say that you could put ten or so people with high functionality autism or what not in a room together and they'd still find it difficult to socialise.