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And to hold grudges for what happened to your supposed ancestors 800 years ago.

Spooky23 11y ago
Easy to say now. If you were a Catholic in Northern Ireland in the recent past, subject to arbitrary harassment and systematic discrimination, you might feel differently. In a sense, every day you wake up is one more day tacked on the those 800 years -- dozens of generations of abuse.
- ktRolster 11y ago
  > If you were a Catholic in Northern Ireland in the > recent past, subject to arbitrary harassment and > systematic discrimination, you might feel differently. That's why you don't let your feelings dictate your actions. Listen to your feelings, sure, but if your feelings tell you to do something stupid, shake your head and wake up.
- vacri 11y ago
  You're describing a situation where it is still personal. Whereas for the people in the RoI, the English menace is no longer in living memory.
  - Spooky23 11y ago
    Absolutely. My grandparents were born in Ireland and were children during the 1920s. They were more live and let live, but my older uncles who were of military age and more aware of what was going on had a distinct distaste for most things British.
CM30 11y ago
You mean like a significant amount of the 'social justice' movement, that seem to be hellbent on attacking people based on their ancestors being such and such hundreds of years ago? Some of the exact people who the Guardian itself seems to like appealing to?
- gnaritas 11y ago
  That's not even close to what social justice is about; the issue isn't what anyone's ancestors did, it's about the lingering effects of their prejudice that are still embedded into our systems and culture thus still affecting people today. No black person alive today was a slave, but they're still suffering the cultural prejudice that came from the slave era, things like mandatory minimum sentences that are much harsher on drugs common to the poor and black than the white an well off is one of many such examples. Bigotry is alive and well even today and minorities still suffer constantly from it; that's what social justice is about, recognizing that things like slavery may no longer exist, but it's effects still do and so it's still a problem that needs addressed.
  - CM30 11y ago
    What about those who seem quite happy about such recent incidents as students literally burning 'colonial' artwork or asking for statues to be removed? That seems pretty extreme. No one's saying the legal system is fine (though that said, it should be pointed out that it's biased in more ways than one and on more than race), but there's definitely a bunch of people trying to tar everyone with the same brush, and thinking that certain things are the only differentiators.
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      Asking for statutes to be removed is extreme? Burning things in protest is extreme? I think we use the word extreme differently, seems pretty tame.
    - chillwaves 11y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
Re: Ireland, a lot of people on this forum were alive during this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29

Easy to say now. If you were a Catholic in Northern Ireland in the recent past, subject to arbitrary harassment and systematic discrimination, you might feel differently. In a sense, every day you wake up is one more day tacked on the those 800 years -- dozens of generations of abuse.

ktRolster 11y ago
> If you were a Catholic in Northern Ireland in the > recent past, subject to arbitrary harassment and > systematic discrimination, you might feel differently. That's why you don't let your feelings dictate your actions. Listen to your feelings, sure, but if your feelings tell you to do something stupid, shake your head and wake up.
vacri 11y ago
You're describing a situation where it is still personal. Whereas for the people in the RoI, the English menace is no longer in living memory.
- Spooky23 11y ago
  Absolutely. My grandparents were born in Ireland and were children during the 1920s. They were more live and let live, but my older uncles who were of military age and more aware of what was going on had a distinct distaste for most things British.

CM30 11y ago

You mean like a significant amount of the 'social justice' movement, that seem to be hellbent on attacking people based on their ancestors being such and such hundreds of years ago? Some of the exact people who the Guardian itself seems to like appealing to?

gnaritas 11y ago
That's not even close to what social justice is about; the issue isn't what anyone's ancestors did, it's about the lingering effects of their prejudice that are still embedded into our systems and culture thus still affecting people today. No black person alive today was a slave, but they're still suffering the cultural prejudice that came from the slave era, things like mandatory minimum sentences that are much harsher on drugs common to the poor and black than the white an well off is one of many such examples. Bigotry is alive and well even today and minorities still suffer constantly from it; that's what social justice is about, recognizing that things like slavery may no longer exist, but it's effects still do and so it's still a problem that needs addressed.
- CM30 11y ago
  What about those who seem quite happy about such recent incidents as students literally burning 'colonial' artwork or asking for statues to be removed? That seems pretty extreme. No one's saying the legal system is fine (though that said, it should be pointed out that it's biased in more ways than one and on more than race), but there's definitely a bunch of people trying to tar everyone with the same brush, and thinking that certain things are the only differentiators.
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    Asking for statutes to be removed is extreme? Burning things in protest is extreme? I think we use the word extreme differently, seems pretty tame.
  - chillwaves 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago

Re: Ireland, a lot of people on this forum were alive during this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29