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I'm probably going to get downvoted to hell on this; but as a Rubyist who has been working on a Python project, I've been finding pip to be really weak against

by tibbon 11y ago

I'm probably going to get downvoted to hell on this; but as a Rubyist who has been working on a Python project, I've been finding pip to be really weak against rubygems/bundler. With RubyGems/Bundler I love the ability to point to github repos, lock versions (or allow minor/patch versions to update), have groups, etc. requiresments.txt and pip just feels, awkward and weird. Especially when combined with virtualenv, in comparison to Ruby this is just stiff and strange. I've had nothing but problems with more complex packages like opencv and opencl as well.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
scandinavian 11y ago
>With RubyGems/Bundler I love the ability to point to github repos You can do this with pip.
mrharrison 11y ago
> I've had nothing but problems with more complex packages I could say the same things about rubygems. With coding a lot of it is what you are familiar with. To me python and pip is clean and simple, ruby and rubygems is overly complex. But that's because I'm familiar with python, so yeah.
infecto 11y ago
I am fairly positive you can do everything you have described. Just doing a quick google search returns the answers I need. 1. Point to github repos. `pip install git+ssh://git@github.com/echweb/echweb-utils.git` http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4830856/is-it-possible-to-use-pip-to-install-a-package-from-a-private-github-repository http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4830856/is-it-possible-to... 2. Lock minor versions `Django>=1.3,<1.3.99` http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6047670/pip-specifying-minor-version http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6047670/pip-specifying-mi... What is a group? My google search did not turn up anything relevant.
- brbsix 11y ago
  The only bummer is that you can't declare git repos as project dependencies, AFAIK they have to be installed manually as you've described.[0][1] Does ruby handle this well? This is a real PITA when the Cheese Shop / Warehouse either don't have a particular project or only have an outdated version. In such cases you pretty much just have to create your own mirror. FYI groups allow you to group various dependencies. E.g. you have one group of dependencies for development, another for testing, and a minimal one for production. [0]: --process-dependency-links will permit you to pull in VCS repos as dependencies locally, but it does you no good when distributing packages for third-party consumption [1]: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pypa-dev/tJ6HHPQpyJ4 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pypa-dev/tJ6HHPQpyJ4
  - scandinavian 11y ago
    If you mean project dependencies as dependencies declared in the setup.py file, setuptools support the dependency_links option, which can include VCS links. So that shouldn't be a problem, albeit I believe it is frowned upon.
    - brbsix 11y ago
      You have to pass pip the --process-dependency-links flag at install time (which is pretty shitty if users are expecting to be able to install from PyPi normally) and it will ignore your dependency links if it thinks there is a better package available at PyPi (e.g. some other package with the same name has a higher version or the GitHub repo has some critical bug fixes but still has the same version as the PyPi package). Sometimes you can fool it into working, but it's just been such an unpredictable mess that I've given up on dependency_links for software that's distributed to third-parties.
falsedan 11y ago
Same here, it's so weird coming for Perl (with its healthy admiration of Ruby's tooling) and to be stuck with manually tracking my package's (sorry, distribution's) requirements + pinning their versions in a Make target.
pak 11y ago
Agree, isn't the difference between method #1 and method #2 precisely the reason that Bundler has a distinction between Gemfile and Gemfile.lock? http://bundler.io/v1.3/rationale.html http://bundler.io/v1.3/rationale.html Programmers want to handle and edit method #1, but sane deployment or collaboration requires tracking resolved versions via method #2. The Gemfile contains the top-level dependencies that the app needs; the Gemfile.lock ensures that everybody developing or deploying is using the same gem versions for top-level and resolved transitive dependencies. Periodically one can `bundle update` to upgrade gem versions: http://bundler.io/man/bundle-update.1.html http://bundler.io/man/bundle-update.1.html It does continue to surprise me that distinctions like these are not handled by Python tooling, which has this absolutely sordid history around packaging, which continues aplomb in the wheel vs. egg wars... http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/

by tibbon 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

scandinavian 11y ago

>With RubyGems/Bundler I love the ability to point to github repos You can do this with pip.

mrharrison 11y ago

> I've had nothing but problems with more complex packages I could say the same things about rubygems. With coding a lot of it is what you are familiar with. To me python and pip is clean and simple, ruby and rubygems is overly complex. But that's because I'm familiar with python, so yeah.

infecto 11y ago

I am fairly positive you can do everything you have described. Just doing a quick google search returns the answers I need. 1. Point to github repos. `pip install git+ssh://git@github.com/echweb/echweb-utils.git` http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4830856/is-it-possible-to-use-pip-to-install-a-package-from-a-private-github-repository http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4830856/is-it-possible-to... 2. Lock minor versions `Django>=1.3,<1.3.99` http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6047670/pip-specifying-minor-version http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6047670/pip-specifying-mi... What is a group? My google search did not turn up anything relevant.

brbsix 11y ago
The only bummer is that you can't declare git repos as project dependencies, AFAIK they have to be installed manually as you've described.[0][1] Does ruby handle this well? This is a real PITA when the Cheese Shop / Warehouse either don't have a particular project or only have an outdated version. In such cases you pretty much just have to create your own mirror. FYI groups allow you to group various dependencies. E.g. you have one group of dependencies for development, another for testing, and a minimal one for production. [0]: --process-dependency-links will permit you to pull in VCS repos as dependencies locally, but it does you no good when distributing packages for third-party consumption [1]: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pypa-dev/tJ6HHPQpyJ4 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pypa-dev/tJ6HHPQpyJ4
- scandinavian 11y ago
  If you mean project dependencies as dependencies declared in the setup.py file, setuptools support the dependency_links option, which can include VCS links. So that shouldn't be a problem, albeit I believe it is frowned upon.
  - brbsix 11y ago
    You have to pass pip the --process-dependency-links flag at install time (which is pretty shitty if users are expecting to be able to install from PyPi normally) and it will ignore your dependency links if it thinks there is a better package available at PyPi (e.g. some other package with the same name has a higher version or the GitHub repo has some critical bug fixes but still has the same version as the PyPi package). Sometimes you can fool it into working, but it's just been such an unpredictable mess that I've given up on dependency_links for software that's distributed to third-parties.

falsedan 11y ago

Same here, it's so weird coming for Perl (with its healthy admiration of Ruby's tooling) and to be stuck with manually tracking my package's (sorry, distribution's) requirements + pinning their versions in a Make target.

pak 11y ago

Agree, isn't the difference between method #1 and method #2 precisely the reason that Bundler has a distinction between Gemfile and Gemfile.lock? http://bundler.io/v1.3/rationale.html http://bundler.io/v1.3/rationale.html Programmers want to handle and edit method #1, but sane deployment or collaboration requires tracking resolved versions via method #2. The Gemfile contains the top-level dependencies that the app needs; the Gemfile.lock ensures that everybody developing or deploying is using the same gem versions for top-level and resolved transitive dependencies. Periodically one can `bundle update` to upgrade gem versions: http://bundler.io/man/bundle-update.1.html http://bundler.io/man/bundle-update.1.html It does continue to surprise me that distinctions like these are not handled by Python tooling, which has this absolutely sordid history around packaging, which continues aplomb in the wheel vs. egg wars... http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/