4 ms·

Here's what we have in Switzerland: http://www.premiereligne.ch/quai9/ http://www.premiereligne.ch/quai9/ (basically, a drug user's paradise: a "consumption s

Here's what we have in Switzerland: http://www.premiereligne.ch/quai9/ http://www.premiereligne.ch/quai9/ (basically, a drug user's paradise: a "consumption space" injection rooms, clean drugs available, medical attention and reanimation in case of overdose, therapy programs and support programs with the intention to help people quit drugs without stigmatizing them and pushing them to it). It is immensely successful. Drug crime becoming nonexistent here. The number of drug users is also decreasing, as drugs are now decriminalized, uncool, readily available and coming with friendly doctors and therapists.

mstade 11y ago
> The number of drug users is also decreasing, as drugs are now decriminalized, uncool, readily available and coming with friendly doctors and therapists. I wish this was the norm everywhere.
david-given 11y ago
...I was at Sechseläuten a couple of years ago --- an end-of-spring festival where the city of Zürich explodes a snowman --- and was standing behind a couple of people sharing a joint. The friend who'd taken me there was absolutely livid. He said it was the most incompetently rolled joint he'd ever seen. Truly, it is a different place here. (Although the downside is that tobacco smoking is rife and getting away from the smell at bus stops, station platforms etc can hard.)
- atemerev 11y ago
  Tobacco smoking is unrelated to other drugs consumption. But yes, in Switzerland it is more popular than in most of the rest of Western Europe and certainly more than in California. It's becoming better, though. Smoking in bars and restaurants recently been banned — finally we can enjoy our remaining favourite drug — alcohol — without any distractions. :)
saiya-jin 11y ago
Wait, you are talking maybe about heroin addicts beyond saving. But if you just want to buy some weed, you definitely must go to shady characters standing on corners of dark streets in the night, and buy overpriced at-best-mediocre-quality stuff from there (I am not racist or anything, but 100% of them in Geneva are black - that's 5 years of experience). Police guys are constantly patrolling these areas (often with dogs), dealers are super suspicious that you are an undercover cop etc. if you get caught with tiny amount (< 1g) at the border, you will face harsh fine, full body cavity inspection etc. Nah, this country is definitely not a paradise, just there are worse places.
- atemerev 11y ago
  Yes, I think it is still illegal to buy and sell marijuana here. And I am not sure if it's possible to smoke a government-issued joint at Quai9. :) Probably not. But: you can legally grow it for your own consumption!
- kerryfalk 11y ago
  "I am not racist or anything, but 100% of them in Geneva are black - that's 5 years of experience" ...it doesn't seem far of a stretch to make the leap to using your statement here to indicate that you may in fact be racist. There was no reason to indicate their race, so why do it? Did they have blue eyes, too? What can I infer from shady blue-eyed people on street corners selling me drugs?
  - RIMR 11y ago
    Geneva is something like 0.1% black. If in 5 years of buying drugs, you find that ~80% of your dealers are black, then I think you can make the assumption that most drug dealers in Geneva are black. I don't see that as racism - that's just a statement of fact. Now, if you carried that one step further and said that black people in Geneva are probably drug dealers, then yeah, that's racist...
    - morninj 11y ago
      I think the idea is that the racial parenthetical is completely irrelevant. It adds no meaning except to underline the point about "shady characters."
Kenji 11y ago
Drug use being legal is an intermediary step, but pointless if possession and trade of drugs is illegal. Since you aways have to obtain and possess drugs in order to comsume them, drugs are still illegal. I don't even know based on what law this organization can administer clean drugs. But yes, Switzerland is doing a better job at fighting drug crime than a lot of other countries.
- atemerev 11y ago
  This is handled quite elegantly here. Possession of drugs remains illegal indeed (we are not talking about marijuana here — this is about "hard" drugs). But you can come to one of Quai9 centres and there are drugs available directly from the government (I am not sure whether for free or for nominal price — perhaps the latter), all of Swiss pharmaceutical quality. Heroin is definitely available (the personnel will try to move heroin addicts to replacement therapy ASAP, but at first, they can continue their habit), not sure about cocaine, but I think it is there as well, as there are mentions of "sniffing places" installed, whatever it is. Thus, there is no possession and no trade (and it's pointless to engage of criminal trade of something that is legally available from the government). The same goes with guns. It is legal to own, buy and sell very impressive guns in Switzerland, but it is illegal to own _ammo_ (unless you are hunter, or can prove that you need self-defense — but this is how it is handled in most European countries; Switzerland is different by making actual gun trade legal). So, how do you fire these guns? Simple: you take one of them, go to the shooting range, and there you can buy some ammo to shoot with (it is very illegal to take it home). Shooting ranges are government-supported and regulated (Swiss government actually encourages citizens to train at shooting ranges).
  - sevensor 11y ago
    Fascinating! The Swiss government implemented Chris Rock's suggestion for bullet control. I see a fair number of U.S. second amendment supporters citing Switzerland as an example of a safe society with high levels of weapons ownership, but I've never heard them mention this.
  - seany 11y ago
    You can own ammo there. Range practice ammo given out in support of the militia requirements can't leave the range.

mstade 11y ago

> The number of drug users is also decreasing, as drugs are now decriminalized, uncool, readily available and coming with friendly doctors and therapists. I wish this was the norm everywhere.

david-given 11y ago

...I was at Sechseläuten a couple of years ago --- an end-of-spring festival where the city of Zürich explodes a snowman --- and was standing behind a couple of people sharing a joint. The friend who'd taken me there was absolutely livid. He said it was the most incompetently rolled joint he'd ever seen. Truly, it is a different place here. (Although the downside is that tobacco smoking is rife and getting away from the smell at bus stops, station platforms etc can hard.)

atemerev 11y ago
Tobacco smoking is unrelated to other drugs consumption. But yes, in Switzerland it is more popular than in most of the rest of Western Europe and certainly more than in California. It's becoming better, though. Smoking in bars and restaurants recently been banned — finally we can enjoy our remaining favourite drug — alcohol — without any distractions. :)

saiya-jin 11y ago

Wait, you are talking maybe about heroin addicts beyond saving. But if you just want to buy some weed, you definitely must go to shady characters standing on corners of dark streets in the night, and buy overpriced at-best-mediocre-quality stuff from there (I am not racist or anything, but 100% of them in Geneva are black - that's 5 years of experience). Police guys are constantly patrolling these areas (often with dogs), dealers are super suspicious that you are an undercover cop etc. if you get caught with tiny amount (< 1g) at the border, you will face harsh fine, full body cavity inspection etc. Nah, this country is definitely not a paradise, just there are worse places.

atemerev 11y ago
Yes, I think it is still illegal to buy and sell marijuana here. And I am not sure if it's possible to smoke a government-issued joint at Quai9. :) Probably not. But: you can legally grow it for your own consumption!
kerryfalk 11y ago
"I am not racist or anything, but 100% of them in Geneva are black - that's 5 years of experience" ...it doesn't seem far of a stretch to make the leap to using your statement here to indicate that you may in fact be racist. There was no reason to indicate their race, so why do it? Did they have blue eyes, too? What can I infer from shady blue-eyed people on street corners selling me drugs?
- RIMR 11y ago
  Geneva is something like 0.1% black. If in 5 years of buying drugs, you find that ~80% of your dealers are black, then I think you can make the assumption that most drug dealers in Geneva are black. I don't see that as racism - that's just a statement of fact. Now, if you carried that one step further and said that black people in Geneva are probably drug dealers, then yeah, that's racist...
  - morninj 11y ago
    I think the idea is that the racial parenthetical is completely irrelevant. It adds no meaning except to underline the point about "shady characters."

Kenji 11y ago

Drug use being legal is an intermediary step, but pointless if possession and trade of drugs is illegal. Since you aways have to obtain and possess drugs in order to comsume them, drugs are still illegal. I don't even know based on what law this organization can administer clean drugs. But yes, Switzerland is doing a better job at fighting drug crime than a lot of other countries.

atemerev 11y ago
This is handled quite elegantly here. Possession of drugs remains illegal indeed (we are not talking about marijuana here — this is about "hard" drugs). But you can come to one of Quai9 centres and there are drugs available directly from the government (I am not sure whether for free or for nominal price — perhaps the latter), all of Swiss pharmaceutical quality. Heroin is definitely available (the personnel will try to move heroin addicts to replacement therapy ASAP, but at first, they can continue their habit), not sure about cocaine, but I think it is there as well, as there are mentions of "sniffing places" installed, whatever it is. Thus, there is no possession and no trade (and it's pointless to engage of criminal trade of something that is legally available from the government). The same goes with guns. It is legal to own, buy and sell very impressive guns in Switzerland, but it is illegal to own _ammo_ (unless you are hunter, or can prove that you need self-defense — but this is how it is handled in most European countries; Switzerland is different by making actual gun trade legal). So, how do you fire these guns? Simple: you take one of them, go to the shooting range, and there you can buy some ammo to shoot with (it is very illegal to take it home). Shooting ranges are government-supported and regulated (Swiss government actually encourages citizens to train at shooting ranges).
- sevensor 11y ago
  Fascinating! The Swiss government implemented Chris Rock's suggestion for bullet control. I see a fair number of U.S. second amendment supporters citing Switzerland as an example of a safe society with high levels of weapons ownership, but I've never heard them mention this.
- seany 11y ago
  You can own ammo there. Range practice ammo given out in support of the militia requirements can't leave the range.