5 ms·

"The only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore" So, completely discounting the massive improvements in Portugal since decriminalisation?

icebraining 11y ago
While I'm very glad we did so, I have to point out that decriminalization of possession of small amounts of drugs is very far from legalization.
- CrLf 11y ago
  Also, it didn't really fix the drug abuse problem. It did help a lot with the social consequences of abuse by removing obstacles to seek help (or provide help).
  - luso_brazilian 11y ago
    The drug abuse problem was not completely fixed but at least it shifted the principal caretaker of the problem from the security forces to the social security. In my view these were the main factors for the relative (and undeniable as per [1]) success of the Portugal approach: - Decriminalizing the use and possession without the intent to distribute (the measure that gets all the credit) - The harm reduction program [2] with measures like needle exchanges, safe rooms for drug injection (popularly known here as "salas de chuto", roughly "kick rooms"), methadone clinics - Relocation, requalification and housing programs to vacate popular drug hotspots like, for instance, Casal Ventoso (before [3], after [4]) It is interesting because in the span of one generation heroin consumption turned from "cool, rebelious and chic" (like in Kate Moss heroin chic) to a bums drug, provided by the government to the ones that lost their ways. This change in perception helped to break the cycle of graduation from light drugs (like cannabis) to hard drugs (like heroin) in the youth and most likely is a significant factor in the success of the portuguese approach. Kids won't touch the hard stuff because they can see very clearly based on who ends up in "salas de chuto" or in the methadone centers the harmful effect of the drug. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decr... [2] http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/country-data/harm-reduction/Portugal http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/country-data/harm-reduction/Port... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7lOXcR05_E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7lOXcR05_E (graphic, drug use, in portuguese) [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqIUU80W60M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqIUU80W60M (in portuguese)
random_upvoter 11y ago
Note that manufacture, import and sale of drugs is still illegal in Portugal. I find it hard to understand why so many people in the US want to switch drug policy from one extreme of the spectrum to the other. It's a rash social experiment with consequences that are hard to predict.
- tomp 11y ago
  I don't know about the people in the US, but I can tell you why I want to completely legalize drugs. I see only benefits (less organized crime) with no downsides (I don't think drug usage will increase, as drugs are extremely easy to get even now). Note that the prices don't need to drop - the government could still tax drugs even higher than they tax alcohol and tobacco now - so there's no economical argument why the demand would increase.
- vzcx 11y ago
  Well it's certainly not because they want to be able to order their heroin online, have it delivered next day, and mainline it in the safety of their own homes. Because they can already do that.

icebraining 11y ago

While I'm very glad we did so, I have to point out that decriminalization of possession of small amounts of drugs is very far from legalization.

CrLf 11y ago
Also, it didn't really fix the drug abuse problem. It did help a lot with the social consequences of abuse by removing obstacles to seek help (or provide help).
- luso_brazilian 11y ago
  The drug abuse problem was not completely fixed but at least it shifted the principal caretaker of the problem from the security forces to the social security. In my view these were the main factors for the relative (and undeniable as per [1]) success of the Portugal approach: - Decriminalizing the use and possession without the intent to distribute (the measure that gets all the credit) - The harm reduction program [2] with measures like needle exchanges, safe rooms for drug injection (popularly known here as "salas de chuto", roughly "kick rooms"), methadone clinics - Relocation, requalification and housing programs to vacate popular drug hotspots like, for instance, Casal Ventoso (before [3], after [4]) It is interesting because in the span of one generation heroin consumption turned from "cool, rebelious and chic" (like in Kate Moss heroin chic) to a bums drug, provided by the government to the ones that lost their ways. This change in perception helped to break the cycle of graduation from light drugs (like cannabis) to hard drugs (like heroin) in the youth and most likely is a significant factor in the success of the portuguese approach. Kids won't touch the hard stuff because they can see very clearly based on who ends up in "salas de chuto" or in the methadone centers the harmful effect of the drug. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decr... [2] http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/country-data/harm-reduction/Portugal http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/country-data/harm-reduction/Port... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7lOXcR05_E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7lOXcR05_E (graphic, drug use, in portuguese) [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqIUU80W60M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqIUU80W60M (in portuguese)

random_upvoter 11y ago

Note that manufacture, import and sale of drugs is still illegal in Portugal. I find it hard to understand why so many people in the US want to switch drug policy from one extreme of the spectrum to the other. It's a rash social experiment with consequences that are hard to predict.

tomp 11y ago
I don't know about the people in the US, but I can tell you why I want to completely legalize drugs. I see only benefits (less organized crime) with no downsides (I don't think drug usage will increase, as drugs are extremely easy to get even now). Note that the prices don't need to drop - the government could still tax drugs even higher than they tax alcohol and tobacco now - so there's no economical argument why the demand would increase.
vzcx 11y ago
Well it's certainly not because they want to be able to order their heroin online, have it delivered next day, and mainline it in the safety of their own homes. Because they can already do that.