6 ms·

End result: The thing resolved itself, likely because someone else sued her stalker. I have to wonder though: If her local police was ignorant of actual laws a

End result: The thing resolved itself, likely because someone else sued her stalker. I have to wonder though: If her local police was ignorant of actual laws applying to her case, as she indicated, couldn't she just tell the officers under which exact laws she is making a complaint? Further, if the local police is generally ignorant and incompetent, what would her chances for success be in using a lawyer to try and identify appropiate channels and contacting them?

fiatmoney 11y ago
Based on that excerpt, that NY statute looks pretty clearly unconstitutional. It also appears to criminalize, eg, vanilla customer complaints, as long as someone asked them not to. I'm not surprised the police weren't interested. Edit: she leaves out the condition "for no legitimate purpose", which makes it plausibly constitutional, but nearly unprosecutable. https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/120/120-45%283%29.pdf https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/120/120-45%28...
sandworm101 11y ago
>>> if the local police is generally ignorant and incompetent, what would her chances for success be in using a lawyer to try and identify appropiate channels and contacting them? Not great, but certainly better than the nothing offered by police. This situation seems to have ended when another victim took the steps to launch a lawsuit. Lawyers can do many things. This defendant was identified. She knew who he was. Legal threats are not fun. They aren't like being arrested, but are still not pleasant. The stalker gets the threat, seeks his own lawyer, and quickly realizes how deep he is into this thing.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Ok, so she wasn't out of options. Just hadn't reached for the more expensive sticks yet.
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    They are not that expensive. She know the guy. No investigation is needed. A lawyer won't charge much to put a scary demand letter together, maybe a couple hundred at most but probably much less in such a situation. Going to a lawyer first, before the police, could also have softened much of that horrific experience. Going to the police WITH your lawyer also makes a real difference. It will at least get you past the reporting window and talking to an actual investigator. I did this sort of thing while a law student. Cops take lawyers much more seriously than victims. it's Wrong, it's harsh, but that is reality.
    - cplease 11y ago
      Or just telling him directly to stop himself. Maybe she did, but she didn't say she did. "Don't message me SO MUCH or I will BLOCK YOU" isn't quite the same thing as DON'T CONTACT ME AGAIN. A gentleman would get the hint, but a gentleman wouldn't be such a creepy asshole to begin with. You don't legally have the right to dictate to someone how they talk to you. You do legally have the right to cut off all contact with someone (unless they have a reasonable need to do so and their contact is in line with such purpose). It's not a crime to be a creep. If you tell a creep, "Call me whenever you want, just don't be creepy," that doesn't criminalize their creepy personality when they continue to make creepy calls. If you tell them, "Never call me again, you creep," and they continue to call, that becomes aggravated harassment in the state of New York.
      - throwaway39578 11y ago
        "Don't message me SO MUCH or I will BLOCK YOU" sounds exactly like "I told my cyber stalker that if he didn't ease up on how much he was messaging me - my phone was beeping multiple times per day, bothering me at all hours - he could forget about breakfast in the morning from here on out - the next time he showed up at my apartment, I'd send him home with the night bus as soon as we were done having sex." (not a quote, I'm making fun here.) Like, seriously. They're still facebook friends through all this? The woman in the article says "When I got a Facebook account in 2006 he found me again and, not wanting to be rude, I accepted his friend request. He often sent me rambling accounts of his day-to-day life. I usually didn’t respond, but sometimes I messaged back if I was bored or lonely." Oh really? Sometimes you messaged back if you were bored or lonely? This is how you end up in a happy marriage with the guy twenty years later after you've finished your studies and want to start settling down. The guy's behavior is COMPLETELY BATSHIT INSANE and there is ZERO excuse for ANY of what is described. At the same time, he's not a stalker until she unequivocally tells him that she would not like any further contact and asking him to move on. I cannot believe that she is a writer, yet this bad at communication. What is so hard about saying, "I don't want this. Leave me alone." Jesus H. Christ. I hope I never, ever have anything to do with a woman like this one, because who knows if she really consented when I make out with her in my or her bedroom? Does she have an inability to open her mouth and communicate what is going on? Jesus. All that said, (I only glanced through the article) the guy's behavior completely surpasses anything even remotely justifiable. He's in the wrong. She's in the wrong for not telling him.
na85 11y ago
>If her local police was ignorant of actual laws applying to her case, as she indicated, couldn't she just tell the officers under which exact laws she is making a complaint? To me at least it's been conclusively demonstrated that 60-90% of police are completely incompetent. I would not trust them to do the right thing even if you mentioned the law.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  I don't know how it works in the U.S. but in Australia I had a situation where someone bumped into my mother on the road and intimidated her as she went down the highway. My mother noted the time, the license plate number and ensured she called the Police Assistance Line we have, after he passed her by. They referred her to her local police station. She went to see them the next morning, but the Officer on Duty refused point blank to file a statement. She later went back, and the same Office on Duty again refused to file a statement. So did his supervisor. I knew this was a crime, so I did the following: 1. I called back the Police Assistance Line and explained that my mother had been intimidated on the road. I explained the situation and asked if the police were meant to look into the matter. The Police Assistance line operator, whose details I took, advised me it is against the law and should be followed up. 2. I called the local police station and explained to the person on the line that my mother had had someone bump into her on the highway, and she was intimidated. I asked if this was something that was allowed, and the police officer explained to me that actually, this was something that should be looked into. 3. I then explained to the police officer that my mother had already tried to have a statement taken twice already, but it was declined each time and the supervisor would not go ahead with it either. I asked to speak to the duty sergeant. 4. The duty sergeant, after I explained the situation to him again, sounded very sheepish and promised to look into the matter. The Police finally took a statement. Now if that had been me, I would have taken matters further and lodged a complaint with the Ombudsman. I very much think that police need to learn that a. they aren't lawyers, and they don't know the law even though many of them think they do, and b. they also need to know that if they literally stop others from reporting crimes (not even the point of acting on crimes, reporting of a crimes) then they will be buried in paperwork because of their jerkish behaviour.
  - 11y ago

fiatmoney 11y ago

Based on that excerpt, that NY statute looks pretty clearly unconstitutional. It also appears to criminalize, eg, vanilla customer complaints, as long as someone asked them not to. I'm not surprised the police weren't interested. Edit: she leaves out the condition "for no legitimate purpose", which makes it plausibly constitutional, but nearly unprosecutable. https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/120/120-45%283%29.pdf https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/120/120-45%28...

sandworm101 11y ago

>>> if the local police is generally ignorant and incompetent, what would her chances for success be in using a lawyer to try and identify appropiate channels and contacting them? Not great, but certainly better than the nothing offered by police. This situation seems to have ended when another victim took the steps to launch a lawsuit. Lawyers can do many things. This defendant was identified. She knew who he was. Legal threats are not fun. They aren't like being arrested, but are still not pleasant. The stalker gets the threat, seeks his own lawyer, and quickly realizes how deep he is into this thing.

Mithaldu 11y ago
Ok, so she wasn't out of options. Just hadn't reached for the more expensive sticks yet.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  They are not that expensive. She know the guy. No investigation is needed. A lawyer won't charge much to put a scary demand letter together, maybe a couple hundred at most but probably much less in such a situation. Going to a lawyer first, before the police, could also have softened much of that horrific experience. Going to the police WITH your lawyer also makes a real difference. It will at least get you past the reporting window and talking to an actual investigator. I did this sort of thing while a law student. Cops take lawyers much more seriously than victims. it's Wrong, it's harsh, but that is reality.
  - cplease 11y ago
    Or just telling him directly to stop himself. Maybe she did, but she didn't say she did. "Don't message me SO MUCH or I will BLOCK YOU" isn't quite the same thing as DON'T CONTACT ME AGAIN. A gentleman would get the hint, but a gentleman wouldn't be such a creepy asshole to begin with. You don't legally have the right to dictate to someone how they talk to you. You do legally have the right to cut off all contact with someone (unless they have a reasonable need to do so and their contact is in line with such purpose). It's not a crime to be a creep. If you tell a creep, "Call me whenever you want, just don't be creepy," that doesn't criminalize their creepy personality when they continue to make creepy calls. If you tell them, "Never call me again, you creep," and they continue to call, that becomes aggravated harassment in the state of New York.
    - throwaway39578 11y ago
      "Don't message me SO MUCH or I will BLOCK YOU" sounds exactly like "I told my cyber stalker that if he didn't ease up on how much he was messaging me - my phone was beeping multiple times per day, bothering me at all hours - he could forget about breakfast in the morning from here on out - the next time he showed up at my apartment, I'd send him home with the night bus as soon as we were done having sex." (not a quote, I'm making fun here.) Like, seriously. They're still facebook friends through all this? The woman in the article says "When I got a Facebook account in 2006 he found me again and, not wanting to be rude, I accepted his friend request. He often sent me rambling accounts of his day-to-day life. I usually didn’t respond, but sometimes I messaged back if I was bored or lonely." Oh really? Sometimes you messaged back if you were bored or lonely? This is how you end up in a happy marriage with the guy twenty years later after you've finished your studies and want to start settling down. The guy's behavior is COMPLETELY BATSHIT INSANE and there is ZERO excuse for ANY of what is described. At the same time, he's not a stalker until she unequivocally tells him that she would not like any further contact and asking him to move on. I cannot believe that she is a writer, yet this bad at communication. What is so hard about saying, "I don't want this. Leave me alone." Jesus H. Christ. I hope I never, ever have anything to do with a woman like this one, because who knows if she really consented when I make out with her in my or her bedroom? Does she have an inability to open her mouth and communicate what is going on? Jesus. All that said, (I only glanced through the article) the guy's behavior completely surpasses anything even remotely justifiable. He's in the wrong. She's in the wrong for not telling him.

na85 11y ago

>If her local police was ignorant of actual laws applying to her case, as she indicated, couldn't she just tell the officers under which exact laws she is making a complaint? To me at least it's been conclusively demonstrated that 60-90% of police are completely incompetent. I would not trust them to do the right thing even if you mentioned the law.

chris_wot 11y ago
I don't know how it works in the U.S. but in Australia I had a situation where someone bumped into my mother on the road and intimidated her as she went down the highway. My mother noted the time, the license plate number and ensured she called the Police Assistance Line we have, after he passed her by. They referred her to her local police station. She went to see them the next morning, but the Officer on Duty refused point blank to file a statement. She later went back, and the same Office on Duty again refused to file a statement. So did his supervisor. I knew this was a crime, so I did the following: 1. I called back the Police Assistance Line and explained that my mother had been intimidated on the road. I explained the situation and asked if the police were meant to look into the matter. The Police Assistance line operator, whose details I took, advised me it is against the law and should be followed up. 2. I called the local police station and explained to the person on the line that my mother had had someone bump into her on the highway, and she was intimidated. I asked if this was something that was allowed, and the police officer explained to me that actually, this was something that should be looked into. 3. I then explained to the police officer that my mother had already tried to have a statement taken twice already, but it was declined each time and the supervisor would not go ahead with it either. I asked to speak to the duty sergeant. 4. The duty sergeant, after I explained the situation to him again, sounded very sheepish and promised to look into the matter. The Police finally took a statement. Now if that had been me, I would have taken matters further and lodged a complaint with the Ombudsman. I very much think that police need to learn that a. they aren't lawyers, and they don't know the law even though many of them think they do, and b. they also need to know that if they literally stop others from reporting crimes (not even the point of acting on crimes, reporting of a crimes) then they will be buried in paperwork because of their jerkish behaviour.
- 11y ago