3 ms·

What you wrote makes no sense. Renouncing citizenship does not remove the legal obligation to pay owed taxes. Quoting http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/

by dalke 11y ago

What you wrote makes no sense. Renouncing citizenship does not remove the legal obligation to pay owed taxes. Quoting http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-consideratio... : > Persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware of the fact that renunciation of U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship does not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.

gozur88 11y ago
As far as I'm concerned, when you renounce your citizenship you no longer have the obligation to pay (new) US taxes regardless of what the US government thinks. Even under US law after ten years you no longer have to pay income taxes.
- dalke 11y ago
  The IRS doesn't care what you think. They say that expatriating doesn't change anything. And said 10 years would apply even without expatriation, so expatriating doesn't change anything their either. Thus, there is no advantage to expatriating in order to avoid owed taxes.
  - gozur88 11y ago
    >The IRS doesn't care what you think. Well, good. That makes us even. >And said 10 years would apply even without expatriation, so expatriating doesn't change anything their either. I don't believe that's true. There are plenty of news articles about people who are filing twenty or thirty years after leaving the US. Some of them dual citizens who'd never actually been here.
    - dalke 11y ago
      The law also doesn't care what you think in this matter. That's the sticky point. Your last comment is a non sequitur. You originally wrote "the people renouncing might be the people who do owe additional tax". My comments are all about that conjecture. The people who continue to file income tax statements even decades after living in the US are not in the category of "people renouncing" or "owe additional tax".
      - gozur88 11y ago
        >The law also doesn't care what you think in this matter. That's the sticky point. US law is irrelevant. US law only applies in the US, whatever Congress thinks. If I'm not in the US and I'm not a US citizen, the US government can pound sand. I'm always curious why Americans expect the US to have jurisdiction everywhere on the planet and yet don't expect other countries to make laws affecting them. >Your last comment is a non sequitur. You originally wrote "the people renouncing might be the people who do owe additional tax". My comments are all about that conjecture. Yes, people who owe additional tax. That's what I was talking about. People who are expected to pay taxes to the US government even though they don't live in the US and haven't for many years. What is it you're talking about? >The people who continue to file income tax statements even decades after living in the US are not in the category of "people renouncing" or "owe additional tax". Yes, those are the people. Who else would you expect was doing this?
        dalke 11y ago
        If you don't expatriate and live overseas then the US laws are equally irrelevant, regarding any previously owed taxes. That's my point. Expatriation doesn't change anything concerning taxes you already owe. > Who else would you expect was doing this? Hmm. Perhaps I have confused your meaning. I thought this whole time you mean people who owe taxes, don't want to pay taxes, and expatriate to try to avoid paying those taxes. Do you mean people who will in the future need to pay taxes, and expatriate in order to avoid future obligations? If so, then I was confused because these people don't yet owe anything. FWIW, I file US taxes every year, having lived in Sweden for nearly 10 years. I've only once owed any taxes. The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion is, after all, $100,800 . Since that's well above the average income, I expect that many people who expatriate won't ever owe any future taxes.

by dalke 11y ago

gozur88 11y ago

As far as I'm concerned, when you renounce your citizenship you no longer have the obligation to pay (new) US taxes regardless of what the US government thinks. Even under US law after ten years you no longer have to pay income taxes.

dalke 11y ago
The IRS doesn't care what you think. They say that expatriating doesn't change anything. And said 10 years would apply even without expatriation, so expatriating doesn't change anything their either. Thus, there is no advantage to expatriating in order to avoid owed taxes.
- gozur88 11y ago
  >The IRS doesn't care what you think. Well, good. That makes us even. >And said 10 years would apply even without expatriation, so expatriating doesn't change anything their either. I don't believe that's true. There are plenty of news articles about people who are filing twenty or thirty years after leaving the US. Some of them dual citizens who'd never actually been here.
  - dalke 11y ago
    The law also doesn't care what you think in this matter. That's the sticky point. Your last comment is a non sequitur. You originally wrote "the people renouncing might be the people who do owe additional tax". My comments are all about that conjecture. The people who continue to file income tax statements even decades after living in the US are not in the category of "people renouncing" or "owe additional tax".
    - gozur88 11y ago
      >The law also doesn't care what you think in this matter. That's the sticky point. US law is irrelevant. US law only applies in the US, whatever Congress thinks. If I'm not in the US and I'm not a US citizen, the US government can pound sand. I'm always curious why Americans expect the US to have jurisdiction everywhere on the planet and yet don't expect other countries to make laws affecting them. >Your last comment is a non sequitur. You originally wrote "the people renouncing might be the people who do owe additional tax". My comments are all about that conjecture. Yes, people who owe additional tax. That's what I was talking about. People who are expected to pay taxes to the US government even though they don't live in the US and haven't for many years. What is it you're talking about? >The people who continue to file income tax statements even decades after living in the US are not in the category of "people renouncing" or "owe additional tax". Yes, those are the people. Who else would you expect was doing this?
      - dalke 11y ago
        If you don't expatriate and live overseas then the US laws are equally irrelevant, regarding any previously owed taxes. That's my point. Expatriation doesn't change anything concerning taxes you already owe. > Who else would you expect was doing this? Hmm. Perhaps I have confused your meaning. I thought this whole time you mean people who owe taxes, don't want to pay taxes, and expatriate to try to avoid paying those taxes. Do you mean people who will in the future need to pay taxes, and expatriate in order to avoid future obligations? If so, then I was confused because these people don't yet owe anything. FWIW, I file US taxes every year, having lived in Sweden for nearly 10 years. I've only once owed any taxes. The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion is, after all, $100,800 . Since that's well above the average income, I expect that many people who expatriate won't ever owe any future taxes.