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The homicide rate is higher than Europe, if that's really the gold standard for you. As you know, the US is a pretty big place. We don't get a lot of murders ou

The homicide rate is higher than Europe, if that's really the gold standard for you. As you know, the US is a pretty big place. We don't get a lot of murders out here in Montana. Healthcare's a pain, sure. Still there's no evidence that any meaningful amount of people are leaving for the bastion of freedom that is Europe, which I find laughable. Ask an Arab around Paris how safe they feel.

davidw 11y ago
> We don't get a lot of murders out here in Montana. Actually, statistically speaking, you do. The rate is 3.6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicid... for Montana, as compared to Italy at 0.9, Germany and Spain at 0.8. All things considered, I doubt anyone moves to Europe for that reason alone, as there are plenty of places in the US where the numbers are fairly low.
- thieving_magpie 11y ago
  My individual state has 2.7 more murders per 100,000 people than Germany and suddenly I "statistically speaking" have a lot of murders in my state? We interpret statistics differently.
  - themagician 11y ago
    I duhno. That sounds pretty brutal to me. Especially that poor person who was 70% murdered.
  - dalke 11y ago
    The homicide rate in Montana is 4.5x higher than Germany. How is that not "a lot of murders" by comparison? Or, rather, what does "a lot of murders" mean to you?
    - thieving_magpie 11y ago
      Here we go again with trying to make the number seem bigger. It's 3 murders per 100,000 people. No, that isn't a lot to me. I'm completely fine and feel safe knowing I have a 0.000036 percent chance of being murdered next year.
      - dalke 11y ago
        What does "a lot of murders" mean to you?
        dalke 11y ago
        Without an answer, I'll go back to your "Ask an Arab around Paris how safe they feel". The 2012 homicide rate in Paris is 1.8 / 100,000, according to the "Homicide counts and rates in the most populous city, time series 2005-2012" spreadsheet available from linked from http://www.unodc.org/gsh/en/data.html http://www.unodc.org/gsh/en/data.html . The total count was 41, so an overall population of 2.2 million. To confirm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris says "The city of Paris (also called the Commune or Department of Paris) had a population of 2,241,346 people within its administrative city limits as of January 1, 2014". It's hard to know the ethic breakdown of everyone who was murdered. That last URL says there are 436,576 immigrants in the city of Paris. I'll assume 2/3rds of those are Arabs, based on the '2011 Census Paris Region; Country/territory of birth' chart from that page, and assume that there are no non-Arab homicides. This is, of course, going to give a very high number compared to the actual number: That gives a homicide rate of 41 / (436576*2/3) = 14/100,000, compared to Montana's 3.6. This absurd number is still less than 4x of homicide rate in Montana. Under your logic, an Arab in Paris should not feel unsafe due to threat of being murdered. Why should we think that Montana is safer for you than Paris is for an Arab?
        thieving_magpie 11y ago
        You seem to be under the impression "safety" is defined by per capita murder rates. Which, as you frequently point out, is 3. 3. This isn't going anywhere, right? Let's just wrap it up.

davidw 11y ago

> We don't get a lot of murders out here in Montana. Actually, statistically speaking, you do. The rate is 3.6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicid... for Montana, as compared to Italy at 0.9, Germany and Spain at 0.8. All things considered, I doubt anyone moves to Europe for that reason alone, as there are plenty of places in the US where the numbers are fairly low.

thieving_magpie 11y ago
My individual state has 2.7 more murders per 100,000 people than Germany and suddenly I "statistically speaking" have a lot of murders in my state? We interpret statistics differently.
- themagician 11y ago
  I duhno. That sounds pretty brutal to me. Especially that poor person who was 70% murdered.
- dalke 11y ago
  The homicide rate in Montana is 4.5x higher than Germany. How is that not "a lot of murders" by comparison? Or, rather, what does "a lot of murders" mean to you?
  - thieving_magpie 11y ago
    Here we go again with trying to make the number seem bigger. It's 3 murders per 100,000 people. No, that isn't a lot to me. I'm completely fine and feel safe knowing I have a 0.000036 percent chance of being murdered next year.
    - dalke 11y ago
      What does "a lot of murders" mean to you?
      - dalke 11y ago
        Without an answer, I'll go back to your "Ask an Arab around Paris how safe they feel". The 2012 homicide rate in Paris is 1.8 / 100,000, according to the "Homicide counts and rates in the most populous city, time series 2005-2012" spreadsheet available from linked from http://www.unodc.org/gsh/en/data.html http://www.unodc.org/gsh/en/data.html . The total count was 41, so an overall population of 2.2 million. To confirm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris says "The city of Paris (also called the Commune or Department of Paris) had a population of 2,241,346 people within its administrative city limits as of January 1, 2014". It's hard to know the ethic breakdown of everyone who was murdered. That last URL says there are 436,576 immigrants in the city of Paris. I'll assume 2/3rds of those are Arabs, based on the '2011 Census Paris Region; Country/territory of birth' chart from that page, and assume that there are no non-Arab homicides. This is, of course, going to give a very high number compared to the actual number: That gives a homicide rate of 41 / (436576*2/3) = 14/100,000, compared to Montana's 3.6. This absurd number is still less than 4x of homicide rate in Montana. Under your logic, an Arab in Paris should not feel unsafe due to threat of being murdered. Why should we think that Montana is safer for you than Paris is for an Arab?
        thieving_magpie 11y ago
        You seem to be under the impression "safety" is defined by per capita murder rates. Which, as you frequently point out, is 3. 3. This isn't going anywhere, right? Let's just wrap it up.