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As a Libertarian who believes in the Singularity and that the workplace will be displaced by AI I think basic income and the Geolibertarian, Agrarian Justice, G

by bcheung 11y ago

As a Libertarian who believes in the Singularity and that the workplace will be displaced by AI I think basic income and the Geolibertarian, Agrarian Justice, Georgism style basic income is the only one that will work and that doesn't violate the principle of liberty and respect for personal property. With Internet based education, society has the potential to make education virtually free since the cost of distribution is essentially zero. It's only when people need access to special equipment or more hands on lab style education where facilities and mentors will be needed. There is still the problem of gentrification though as basic income will be the same everywhere but certain cities will be much more expensive than others. This will lead to skilled labor concentrating in geographic locations.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
I think you're wrong about education. The difference between a decent and an amazing teacher can be phenominal, regardless of the syllabus. Plus, the best education is apprenticeship/on-the-job training, which makes humans even more necessary. The more we use technology, the greater the role people become. You can see any video on the Internet, but most of them are trash and a waste of time, so you look to the producers and curators you prefer. "Machines will make everything we want," people in your category tend to say. Yes, but who designs the clothing, and who markets it into your soul to make you feel incomplete without it? Who comes up with the recipes for your gourmet lunchtime subs? Whom do you trust to suggest one vacation locale over an other? Also, cynically put, this kind of societal transformation will require the dominant financial and political classes to willingly bestow the world with their riches, while giving away their power. When in history has that ever happened?
- hfourm 11y ago
  Well, the important threshold he isn't really commenting on -- but which is much more pertinent, is the further removal of blue collar labor. You are totally right that for the most part, service oriented industries (design, marketing, etc) will remain long after those more labor and autonomous jobs have been transitioned into AI.
  - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
    I disagree about the "blue collar labor" aspect as well. Aren't many lumberjacks in my neck of the woods these days, but woodworkers aplenty. Let's take another example. Perhaps McDonald's goes 100% automated, and a sub shop next door adopts automations for things like cleaning, but still cooks the food by hand. Sure, it doesn't take too much to make a sandwich, but it's the personal aspect that makes it more appealing. And maybe you go there because you like chatting with the people who work there. Couldn't get the same from a machine. I think before we get ahead of ourselves on AI we should re-read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" and remember that the organic will always value the organic more than the inorganic.
    - mc32 11y ago
      Depends... Some entry level jobs kind of breed contemptuous workers. So unless they have great training, such as Starbucks or any Japanese store in Japan, you may want to actually avoid interacting with people. And then you have the places where the servers think they're too good. That what they do is craftsmanship and artisan.
      - notahacker 11y ago
        But the places where the servers think they're too good are often successful businesses whose target market genuinely believes that what they're getting is artisanal produce served by master craftsmen. And at the lower end of the market, vending machine technology (including heated optimised-for-fast-food vending machine technology) has existed for many decades now, as has the production line technology to prepare most types of fast food. The McJobs are still there because fast food giants that invest heavily in researching process optimisation have continued to figure that relying mostly on minimum wage employees and using very little in the way of even basic robotics will actually generate more profit.
        rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
        Bingo on both fronts. Low-wage, low-quality establishments get away with not automating because they are subsidized by low minimum wages and food stamps. Quality establishments are seen as artisan because all it takes is a personal touch in a sea of robotics to feel that you're getting more than you are. I'm sure a pure price analysis of ingredients would show little differentiation (except, in MCDs case, that terrible "meat")
dilemma 11y ago
>With Internet based education, society has the potential to make education virtually free since the cost of distribution is essentially zero. It's only when people need access to special equipment or more hands on lab style education where facilities and mentors will be needed. The "education system" isn't an education system, it is a selection system and its function is almost purely social, filtering most people out of attractive social locations. Additionally, even if the number of engineers doubled overnight, there would not be a proportional increase in firms or jobs because that is not what drives the economy - new initiatives do, and that doesn't come from education (see Schumpeter on the role of the entrepreneur.) Further, as you admit, belief in AI is just that: belief. It is ideology and like religion has nothing to do with science, or reality.
paulryanrogers 11y ago
Not everyone is self motivated or disciplined enough to learn entirely online. Different people also find different learning styles with better for them.

by bcheung 11y ago

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago

I think you're wrong about education. The difference between a decent and an amazing teacher can be phenominal, regardless of the syllabus. Plus, the best education is apprenticeship/on-the-job training, which makes humans even more necessary. The more we use technology, the greater the role people become. You can see any video on the Internet, but most of them are trash and a waste of time, so you look to the producers and curators you prefer. "Machines will make everything we want," people in your category tend to say. Yes, but who designs the clothing, and who markets it into your soul to make you feel incomplete without it? Who comes up with the recipes for your gourmet lunchtime subs? Whom do you trust to suggest one vacation locale over an other? Also, cynically put, this kind of societal transformation will require the dominant financial and political classes to willingly bestow the world with their riches, while giving away their power. When in history has that ever happened?

hfourm 11y ago
Well, the important threshold he isn't really commenting on -- but which is much more pertinent, is the further removal of blue collar labor. You are totally right that for the most part, service oriented industries (design, marketing, etc) will remain long after those more labor and autonomous jobs have been transitioned into AI.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  I disagree about the "blue collar labor" aspect as well. Aren't many lumberjacks in my neck of the woods these days, but woodworkers aplenty. Let's take another example. Perhaps McDonald's goes 100% automated, and a sub shop next door adopts automations for things like cleaning, but still cooks the food by hand. Sure, it doesn't take too much to make a sandwich, but it's the personal aspect that makes it more appealing. And maybe you go there because you like chatting with the people who work there. Couldn't get the same from a machine. I think before we get ahead of ourselves on AI we should re-read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" and remember that the organic will always value the organic more than the inorganic.
  - mc32 11y ago
    Depends... Some entry level jobs kind of breed contemptuous workers. So unless they have great training, such as Starbucks or any Japanese store in Japan, you may want to actually avoid interacting with people. And then you have the places where the servers think they're too good. That what they do is craftsmanship and artisan.
    - notahacker 11y ago
      But the places where the servers think they're too good are often successful businesses whose target market genuinely believes that what they're getting is artisanal produce served by master craftsmen. And at the lower end of the market, vending machine technology (including heated optimised-for-fast-food vending machine technology) has existed for many decades now, as has the production line technology to prepare most types of fast food. The McJobs are still there because fast food giants that invest heavily in researching process optimisation have continued to figure that relying mostly on minimum wage employees and using very little in the way of even basic robotics will actually generate more profit.
      - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
        Bingo on both fronts. Low-wage, low-quality establishments get away with not automating because they are subsidized by low minimum wages and food stamps. Quality establishments are seen as artisan because all it takes is a personal touch in a sea of robotics to feel that you're getting more than you are. I'm sure a pure price analysis of ingredients would show little differentiation (except, in MCDs case, that terrible "meat")

dilemma 11y ago

>With Internet based education, society has the potential to make education virtually free since the cost of distribution is essentially zero. It's only when people need access to special equipment or more hands on lab style education where facilities and mentors will be needed. The "education system" isn't an education system, it is a selection system and its function is almost purely social, filtering most people out of attractive social locations. Additionally, even if the number of engineers doubled overnight, there would not be a proportional increase in firms or jobs because that is not what drives the economy - new initiatives do, and that doesn't come from education (see Schumpeter on the role of the entrepreneur.) Further, as you admit, belief in AI is just that: belief. It is ideology and like religion has nothing to do with science, or reality.

paulryanrogers 11y ago

Not everyone is self motivated or disciplined enough to learn entirely online. Different people also find different learning styles with better for them.