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> You need a lot of western ideals to make this actually work: free speech, open markets, powerful banking, strong monetary policies, anti-isolationism, free tr

by seren 11y ago

> You need a lot of western ideals to make this actually work: free speech, open markets, powerful banking, strong monetary policies, anti-isolationism, free trade, employee protections, anti-corruption, capital protection, strong pro immigration policies, multi-party government, non-corrupt judiciary, etc. That is an interesting point, I wonder how all the points you have listed are intertwined. Do you need free speech because it is a prerequisite to have a low level of corruption ? Or could you in some systems have the low corruption without the free speech ? (I don't really believe that but it seems that is what is the PRC is trying to achieve) What would be the more and less important factor if you had to "implement" one first ? And so on.

EliRivers 11y ago
As a single data-point, Singapore managed low corruption without free speech (and indeed, economic development without much attendant political freedom).
- jernfrost 11y ago
  I think a problem with Singapore style solutions is that it is so dependent on having one very wise leader. Democracy is more robust I think in that it can weather even bad leaders. Bad decisions will happen sooner or later. The problem is that a country like Singapore or China has no good way of dealing with that. Especially with China over a billion people are all dependent on the decision made by one single very centralized government.
neuromancer2701 11y ago
Friedman argued you could use free markets as kind of a trojan. Once they get implemented even in an authoritarian regimes it is easier to transition to an overall free society. Chile is generally seen as having made that transition from Pinochet to full republic by 1990.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  It's not so much a trojan, but as a way to transition to a free society gradually without the chaos caused by a collapse of the authoritarian system.
pjc50 11y ago
I'm not sure all of them are required - to me the minimum package is multi-party government + non-corrupt judiciary + free speech + relative ease of starting a business or NGO legally. Some sort of employee protection or at least representation helps a lot with stability. A lot of people would say that employee protection conflicts with free trade and free movement of people.

by seren 11y ago

EliRivers 11y ago

As a single data-point, Singapore managed low corruption without free speech (and indeed, economic development without much attendant political freedom).

jernfrost 11y ago
I think a problem with Singapore style solutions is that it is so dependent on having one very wise leader. Democracy is more robust I think in that it can weather even bad leaders. Bad decisions will happen sooner or later. The problem is that a country like Singapore or China has no good way of dealing with that. Especially with China over a billion people are all dependent on the decision made by one single very centralized government.

neuromancer2701 11y ago

Friedman argued you could use free markets as kind of a trojan. Once they get implemented even in an authoritarian regimes it is easier to transition to an overall free society. Chile is generally seen as having made that transition from Pinochet to full republic by 1990.

Mikeb85 11y ago
It's not so much a trojan, but as a way to transition to a free society gradually without the chaos caused by a collapse of the authoritarian system.

pjc50 11y ago

I'm not sure all of them are required - to me the minimum package is multi-party government + non-corrupt judiciary + free speech + relative ease of starting a business or NGO legally. Some sort of employee protection or at least representation helps a lot with stability. A lot of people would say that employee protection conflicts with free trade and free movement of people.