5 ms·

Snooper's charter to extend police access to phone and internet data

60 points by anexprogrammer 11y ago

techabuse 11y ago
"Extend the use of state remote computer hacking from the security services to the police in cases involving a 'threat to life' or missing persons. This can include cases involving 'damage to somebody’s mental health', but will be restricted to use by the National Crime Agency and a small number of major police forces." I didn't think I could be surprised, given that the UK hands out "anti-social behavior orders," but now they want to hack the trolls? edit: I can't HTML
- ross-life 11y ago
  > I didn't think I could be surprised, given that the UK hands out "anti-social behavior orders," but now they want to hack the trolls? I can kind of see what you're getting at and could agree that they are sometimes misused. However having lived in several locations where just one terrible family of 4-5 people can make the entire road hell to live on for everyone else, day and night, for years, I'm inclined to support their use.
fweespeech 11y ago
> • Extend the use of state remote computer hacking from the security services to the police in cases involving a “threat to life” or missing persons. This can include cases involving “damage to somebody’s mental health”, but will be restricted to use by the National Crime Agency and a small number of major police forces. Aka "Antisocial behavior" == "We can hack your computer" > The home secretary told MPs she had rejected the committees’ recommendations to exclude the use of state surveillance powers for the “economic wellbeing” of the UK. She also resisted their demand to scrap warrants allowing GCHQ to undertake bulk computer hacking, describing them as a “key operational requirement”. Aka "We can hack anyone who isn't in the UK for financial reasons" All this is really doing is guaranteeing a digital police state in the UK with all level of access, powers, and data recording that would be the wet dream of literally any fascist regime. As sad as it is to say... I can't wait until the very exploits and databases the UK is going to gather get "hacked". It is the only way I think they might possibly wake up and realize how fucking horrific this is.
newman314 11y ago
I see the UK roll out what seems to me increasingly intrusive laws because "terrorists" but relatively muted responses to these encroachments. Do people just not care or have they become numb from the incremental changes over time (starting with surveillance cameras etc.)?
- datamoshr 11y ago
  I work in the UK and live in a household where 3 of 4 people work in tech. It's mostly a case of the people outside of tech simply not knowing. Short of a prime-time TV special that outlined just how long the tentacles of GCHQ are and how it actually affects people; there won't be a change. For those that are in tech, there are essentially two fields of thought I can extrapolate: 1. There's those like myself who are just plain uncomfortable with the idea of someone somewhere having access to every facet of me and my online presence. Modern day tinfoil-hattery if you will. It's at a point bordering on paranoia and having to cover so many bases to have basic operational security of your day to day life is exhausting. 2. There's those that say "I've nothing to hide, what do I care what the government sees". This is the overwhelming majority. What seems to be lacking is an education of the people on the freedom they're passively giving up. Education of these people in this country against the threat of omnipresent surveillance does not exist. It would have to exist outside the realm of the Government and as great as the EFF and various news sources documenting the abolishing of civil freedoms are, I feel it's not enough. I can almost guarantee that if I turned to any one of the 100+ devs on my floor, they wouldn't even know what TTIP is, let alone what the GCHQ is capable of doing. I feel we've already lost. There's simply not enough force to stop what's happening.
  - CM30 11y ago
    To be fair, that doesn't seem all too different to the situation in the US, and this is coming from someone living in the UK. Remember, sites like Hacker News are only a small percentage of the population, and there's a much larger group either completely or nearly completely oblivious to the actions of the NSA or what not. But yeah, people here don't really know all too much about this spying, and they sadly don't seem to care much if they do know. That depresses me, and makes me despair about how spinless much of humanity seems to have become.
beedogs 11y ago
The UK is always five years ahead of the rest of the West when it comes to codifying the destruction of their citizens' privacy into law.
Chefkoochooloo 11y ago
This seems a bit excessive, being able to collect not just relevant files but all files regardless of their relevance with this new expansion on police capabilities. What's particularly scary is the ability to acquire the past 12 months worth of data of everyone. It claims this will assist with "threat to life" and missing persons cases, but would that not mean the police can now arbitrarily point fingers and say we need your data even when it's not clear that a person was involved? Yes, there's a double-lock system in place, but who are to say these two are responsible to hold such power without consensus of the people?
wwayer 11y ago
"The latest draft makes clear that the government will take a pragmatic approach, and no company will be required to remove encryption of their own services if it is not technically feasible." Aren't the recent demands on Apple "technically feasible"?
khushia 11y ago
What if the "state remote computer hacking" target isn't running Windows?
pdkl95 11y ago
"The Price of Dissent" https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7443-the_price_of_dissent https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7443-the_price_of_dissent Thus is a talk by Moazzam Begg[1] about the harassment by the UK (with US involvement) of political minorities, and Cerie Bullivant representing Cage[2]. It is a heavy talk, because it is very frank about what all this surveillance technology has been used for. The use of COINTELPRO-style tactics are not hypothetical. This is the other half of the "snooper's charter" story. As said in the talk, this harassment of minorities is the canary in the coal mine, that hopefu9lly serves as a warning that other groups might be next. [1] former detainee at Guantanamo [2] an advocacy group that supports the victims of the War On Terror

"Extend the use of state remote computer hacking from the security services to the police in cases involving a 'threat to life' or missing persons. This can include cases involving 'damage to somebody’s mental health', but will be restricted to use by the National Crime Agency and a small number of major police forces." I didn't think I could be surprised, given that the UK hands out "anti-social behavior orders," but now they want to hack the trolls? edit: I can't HTML

ross-life 11y ago
> I didn't think I could be surprised, given that the UK hands out "anti-social behavior orders," but now they want to hack the trolls? I can kind of see what you're getting at and could agree that they are sometimes misused. However having lived in several locations where just one terrible family of 4-5 people can make the entire road hell to live on for everyone else, day and night, for years, I'm inclined to support their use.

fweespeech 11y ago

> • Extend the use of state remote computer hacking from the security services to the police in cases involving a “threat to life” or missing persons. This can include cases involving “damage to somebody’s mental health”, but will be restricted to use by the National Crime Agency and a small number of major police forces. Aka "Antisocial behavior" == "We can hack your computer" > The home secretary told MPs she had rejected the committees’ recommendations to exclude the use of state surveillance powers for the “economic wellbeing” of the UK. She also resisted their demand to scrap warrants allowing GCHQ to undertake bulk computer hacking, describing them as a “key operational requirement”. Aka "We can hack anyone who isn't in the UK for financial reasons" All this is really doing is guaranteeing a digital police state in the UK with all level of access, powers, and data recording that would be the wet dream of literally any fascist regime. As sad as it is to say... I can't wait until the very exploits and databases the UK is going to gather get "hacked". It is the only way I think they might possibly wake up and realize how fucking horrific this is.

newman314 11y ago

I see the UK roll out what seems to me increasingly intrusive laws because "terrorists" but relatively muted responses to these encroachments. Do people just not care or have they become numb from the incremental changes over time (starting with surveillance cameras etc.)?

datamoshr 11y ago
I work in the UK and live in a household where 3 of 4 people work in tech. It's mostly a case of the people outside of tech simply not knowing. Short of a prime-time TV special that outlined just how long the tentacles of GCHQ are and how it actually affects people; there won't be a change. For those that are in tech, there are essentially two fields of thought I can extrapolate: 1. There's those like myself who are just plain uncomfortable with the idea of someone somewhere having access to every facet of me and my online presence. Modern day tinfoil-hattery if you will. It's at a point bordering on paranoia and having to cover so many bases to have basic operational security of your day to day life is exhausting. 2. There's those that say "I've nothing to hide, what do I care what the government sees". This is the overwhelming majority. What seems to be lacking is an education of the people on the freedom they're passively giving up. Education of these people in this country against the threat of omnipresent surveillance does not exist. It would have to exist outside the realm of the Government and as great as the EFF and various news sources documenting the abolishing of civil freedoms are, I feel it's not enough. I can almost guarantee that if I turned to any one of the 100+ devs on my floor, they wouldn't even know what TTIP is, let alone what the GCHQ is capable of doing. I feel we've already lost. There's simply not enough force to stop what's happening.
- CM30 11y ago
  To be fair, that doesn't seem all too different to the situation in the US, and this is coming from someone living in the UK. Remember, sites like Hacker News are only a small percentage of the population, and there's a much larger group either completely or nearly completely oblivious to the actions of the NSA or what not. But yeah, people here don't really know all too much about this spying, and they sadly don't seem to care much if they do know. That depresses me, and makes me despair about how spinless much of humanity seems to have become.

beedogs 11y ago

The UK is always five years ahead of the rest of the West when it comes to codifying the destruction of their citizens' privacy into law.

Chefkoochooloo 11y ago

This seems a bit excessive, being able to collect not just relevant files but all files regardless of their relevance with this new expansion on police capabilities. What's particularly scary is the ability to acquire the past 12 months worth of data of everyone. It claims this will assist with "threat to life" and missing persons cases, but would that not mean the police can now arbitrarily point fingers and say we need your data even when it's not clear that a person was involved? Yes, there's a double-lock system in place, but who are to say these two are responsible to hold such power without consensus of the people?

wwayer 11y ago

"The latest draft makes clear that the government will take a pragmatic approach, and no company will be required to remove encryption of their own services if it is not technically feasible." Aren't the recent demands on Apple "technically feasible"?

khushia 11y ago

What if the "state remote computer hacking" target isn't running Windows?

pdkl95 11y ago

"The Price of Dissent" https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7443-the_price_of_dissent https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7443-the_price_of_dissent Thus is a talk by Moazzam Begg[1] about the harassment by the UK (with US involvement) of political minorities, and Cerie Bullivant representing Cage[2]. It is a heavy talk, because it is very frank about what all this surveillance technology has been used for. The use of COINTELPRO-style tactics are not hypothetical. This is the other half of the "snooper's charter" story. As said in the talk, this harassment of minorities is the canary in the coal mine, that hopefu9lly serves as a warning that other groups might be next. [1] former detainee at Guantanamo [2] an advocacy group that supports the victims of the War On Terror