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Tenuous, Anonymous is just a mask to get yourself media attention where Knights had organisation and skill. The only similarity I see is that people who associa

by nfbush 11y ago

Tenuous, Anonymous is just a mask to get yourself media attention where Knights had organisation and skill. The only similarity I see is that people who associate with both groups use technology in attempt for social change.

Jd 11y ago
Anyone know if the "Knights" use lambda calculus? If so I don't think they are that similar to Anon. Knights seem more like a hacker elite where as Anon is more like a flash mob.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  Lain explicitly references the Knights of the Lambda Calculus. https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus
clevernickname 11y ago
I think what corysama is getting at is that the "mantle of edgy script kiddies" Anonymous is very different from the "human flesh search engine" Anonymous.
neltnerb 11y ago
I'd never thought about that connection, but I think the specific comparison is to the first series' "Laughing Man". http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man "'The Laughing Man' became something of a pop culture obsession for a time, much to the chagrin of the actual Laughing Man—the irony being that since everybody used his icon and name for their own purposes, the original meaning of his actions, an artful forced confession of the truth through fear in the public eye, became 'phony' itself. The effort to stand for and demand the truth was also lost forever." That's so similar to how I at least understand Anonymous to exist that it's sends some chills up my spine. The things done in the name of Anonymous are all practically verbatim "Stand Alone Complex" type scenarios where there's not really a leader driving anything, but the interplay of "The Media", individual goals and interests, and a pseudonym to take credit all work towards the creation of a self-sustaining identity utterly independent to the original inspiration.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  I can't shake the feeling that the media attention to Anonymous is what has given us this upsurge of "trolling" in recent years. Meaning that people employ variations of Anon tactics, as reported by the media, against people and groups for the flimsiest of reasons.
  - phaus 11y ago
    That makes sense. Anonymous started as trolls. In the beginning, it was for the lulz. There was actually a good amount of infighting when they started becoming interested in social activism. This infighting persisted up until at least 2013.
  - fl0wenol 11y ago
    It used to be hard to discredit someone or their ideas; you had to have resources to make an idea seem grass roots or fund agent provacteurs. Now we have trolling, sock puppetry, link echo chambers, and other mechanisms that attack our tendencies of contributing in social networks that make it easy for even a single individual with nothing but disdain and time to derail or discredit if sufficiently motivated. It isn't Anonymous, but the penetration of internet and social network into everyday life that makes these tactics more effective than ever, and so anyone with a spare five minutes and a chip on their shoulder can froth the waters; they don't have to be living in their mothers' basement and have a file called "my_hidden_agenda.txt" on their Desktop.
    - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
      Trolling and sock puppet accounts etc were already popular on Usenet in the mid 90s. Someone who knows more history than I do can probably take them a lot further back to (e.g.) public pamphlet debates in the 17th century. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Roman and Greek equivalents. Anonymous independent-action-under-a-common-pseudonym has a long history in politics. The Angry Brigade and King Mob are two recent pre-Internet examples - from the UK in the 60s/70s. Historically, Internet trolling is a lot more civilised than some of the things that used to go in previous centuries. Trolls may be rude to you on Twitter, and they may even dox you and cyber-stalk you. But unpopular people don't often have to face a lynch mob or a riot outside their front door.

by nfbush 11y ago

Jd 11y ago

Anyone know if the "Knights" use lambda calculus? If so I don't think they are that similar to Anon. Knights seem more like a hacker elite where as Anon is more like a flash mob.

pdkl95 11y ago
Lain explicitly references the Knights of the Lambda Calculus. https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus

clevernickname 11y ago

I think what corysama is getting at is that the "mantle of edgy script kiddies" Anonymous is very different from the "human flesh search engine" Anonymous.

neltnerb 11y ago

I'd never thought about that connection, but I think the specific comparison is to the first series' "Laughing Man". http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man "'The Laughing Man' became something of a pop culture obsession for a time, much to the chagrin of the actual Laughing Man—the irony being that since everybody used his icon and name for their own purposes, the original meaning of his actions, an artful forced confession of the truth through fear in the public eye, became 'phony' itself. The effort to stand for and demand the truth was also lost forever." That's so similar to how I at least understand Anonymous to exist that it's sends some chills up my spine. The things done in the name of Anonymous are all practically verbatim "Stand Alone Complex" type scenarios where there's not really a leader driving anything, but the interplay of "The Media", individual goals and interests, and a pseudonym to take credit all work towards the creation of a self-sustaining identity utterly independent to the original inspiration.

digi_owl 11y ago
I can't shake the feeling that the media attention to Anonymous is what has given us this upsurge of "trolling" in recent years. Meaning that people employ variations of Anon tactics, as reported by the media, against people and groups for the flimsiest of reasons.
- phaus 11y ago
  That makes sense. Anonymous started as trolls. In the beginning, it was for the lulz. There was actually a good amount of infighting when they started becoming interested in social activism. This infighting persisted up until at least 2013.
- fl0wenol 11y ago
  It used to be hard to discredit someone or their ideas; you had to have resources to make an idea seem grass roots or fund agent provacteurs. Now we have trolling, sock puppetry, link echo chambers, and other mechanisms that attack our tendencies of contributing in social networks that make it easy for even a single individual with nothing but disdain and time to derail or discredit if sufficiently motivated. It isn't Anonymous, but the penetration of internet and social network into everyday life that makes these tactics more effective than ever, and so anyone with a spare five minutes and a chip on their shoulder can froth the waters; they don't have to be living in their mothers' basement and have a file called "my_hidden_agenda.txt" on their Desktop.
  - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
    Trolling and sock puppet accounts etc were already popular on Usenet in the mid 90s. Someone who knows more history than I do can probably take them a lot further back to (e.g.) public pamphlet debates in the 17th century. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Roman and Greek equivalents. Anonymous independent-action-under-a-common-pseudonym has a long history in politics. The Angry Brigade and King Mob are two recent pre-Internet examples - from the UK in the 60s/70s. Historically, Internet trolling is a lot more civilised than some of the things that used to go in previous centuries. Trolls may be rude to you on Twitter, and they may even dox you and cyber-stalk you. But unpopular people don't often have to face a lynch mob or a riot outside their front door.