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If startups do not want high turnover, they're free to offer above-market-rate salaries or a contract mandating a longer notice period on both sides. Overwhelmi

If startups do not want high turnover, they're free to offer above-market-rate salaries or a contract mandating a longer notice period on both sides. Overwhelmingly, they've chosen at-will employment instead.

abalone 11y ago
The whole point of options is to not have to offer above-market-rate salaries to attract great talent to infant startups.
- cballard 11y ago
  Perhaps infant startups do not deserve "great talent". Engineers shouldn't have to give up cash for lottery tickets, especially when many founders won't even include the number of outstanding shares, preferences, etc. in the options agreement!
  - maerF0x0 11y ago
    Said engineers do not have to take startup jobs. Unless they do due to lack of options elsewhere.
    - st3v3r 11y ago
      That's not an excuse for dishonesty on the part of startups.
  - gaadd33 11y ago
    If you had the outstanding shares and preferences in the options agreement wouldn't you have to have everyone resign every time someone exercised their options (changing the number of outstanding shares) or they raised money? However I agree founders should be up front about the financial/investor makeup of the company.
    - cballard 11y ago
      I got my options agreement which said I was entitled to N options at P price. No other information was provided, so not sure how I'm supposed to value them other than $0. I assume that the options are intended for people that are bad at math.
      - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
        >I assume that the options are intended for people that are bad at math. It does appear to be a way to get employees for cheaper than market rates by taking advantage of an arbitrage in employee lack of understand of the financial and legal issues concerning stocks.
    - x0x0 11y ago
      The size of the options pool is good enough. You don't need to know the exact number of shares; plus or minus 10 percent is fine.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  And we've seen that it is a terrible solution which is rife for abuse on the side of the startup.

abalone 11y ago

The whole point of options is to not have to offer above-market-rate salaries to attract great talent to infant startups.

cballard 11y ago
Perhaps infant startups do not deserve "great talent". Engineers shouldn't have to give up cash for lottery tickets, especially when many founders won't even include the number of outstanding shares, preferences, etc. in the options agreement!
- maerF0x0 11y ago
  Said engineers do not have to take startup jobs. Unless they do due to lack of options elsewhere.
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    That's not an excuse for dishonesty on the part of startups.
- gaadd33 11y ago
  If you had the outstanding shares and preferences in the options agreement wouldn't you have to have everyone resign every time someone exercised their options (changing the number of outstanding shares) or they raised money? However I agree founders should be up front about the financial/investor makeup of the company.
  - cballard 11y ago
    I got my options agreement which said I was entitled to N options at P price. No other information was provided, so not sure how I'm supposed to value them other than $0. I assume that the options are intended for people that are bad at math.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      >I assume that the options are intended for people that are bad at math. It does appear to be a way to get employees for cheaper than market rates by taking advantage of an arbitrage in employee lack of understand of the financial and legal issues concerning stocks.
  - x0x0 11y ago
    The size of the options pool is good enough. You don't need to know the exact number of shares; plus or minus 10 percent is fine.
st3v3r 11y ago
And we've seen that it is a terrible solution which is rife for abuse on the side of the startup.