4 ms·

I have lived in a food desert, it sucks and seriously affects what meals you have. Organic is a bit of a red-herring here IMO.

jMyles 11y ago
> Organic is a bit of a red-herring here IMO. Why?
- condud 11y ago
  Mate there is no scientific consensus that organic is more nutritional than non-organic. And there is no scientific consensus the the pesticides are harmful in the levels in which they appear. 'Organic' food is a middle class indulgence and a fashion. Their biggest problem is not that they don't have a a Whole Foods. You're ignorant.
  - jMyles 11y ago
    > You're ignorant. Thanks for the ad-hominen - it really advances your position and lends credibility to your argument. > Mate there is no scientific consensus that organic is more nutritional than non-organic. By moving the goalposts this way, you have ensured both that your statement is technically accurate and that it is irrelevant to this discussion. Needless to say (and it has been rehashed over and over), nothing in the world enjoys scientific consensus. Not climate change, not vaccination efficacy. Nevertheless, reasonable people make decisions based in part on positions that overwhelm, with solid evidence, the contrary position. Organic food is not designed to be more nutritious, although it often is (at least according to the EU study which came out this month and which is by far the largest and most rigorous study on the matter - http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2016/02/15/more-omega-3-in-organic-meat-and-milk-review-of-studies-says/ http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2016/02/15/more-omega-3...). It is designed to be less toxic, not only for the consumer but for the farm workers and the land. There is overwhelming evidence that organic farming achieves these goals. The one major study (the Stanford study, linked above) which deviates from this position is quite controversial (for the reasons I have also linked above). On the other hand, hundreds of studies around the world have shown that organic farming is effective. Here's one from two weeks ago: http://blog.journals.cambridge.org/2016/02/16/health-benefits-of-organic-milk-and-meat/ http://blog.journals.cambridge.org/2016/02/16/health-benefit...
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  Because it leads to useless comments like this: "Ha ha ha ha you think people are held back because their food isn't organic? Ha ha ha ha ha"
- placeybordeaux 11y ago
  In the case where there are three classes of food buyers non-fresh non-organic (can only purchase from restaurants, or convenience stores/gas stations) Fresh non-organic (has access to some fresh produce, but is not able to choose organic produce) Fresh organic (has full choice) The difference between the first two is extremely important and has a large effect on nutrition and percentage of income spent on food, while the difference between the second two has some benefit on nutrition and might benefit society as a whole. Living without access to fresh produce really sucks. I thankfully had a car when I lived in a food desert, but it still affected how frequently I ate home cooked meals.
  - jMyles 11y ago
    Right. My priority is usually local (and, if animal product, humane) first, fresh second, organic third.

jMyles 11y ago

> Organic is a bit of a red-herring here IMO. Why?

condud 11y ago
Mate there is no scientific consensus that organic is more nutritional than non-organic. And there is no scientific consensus the the pesticides are harmful in the levels in which they appear. 'Organic' food is a middle class indulgence and a fashion. Their biggest problem is not that they don't have a a Whole Foods. You're ignorant.
- jMyles 11y ago
  > You're ignorant. Thanks for the ad-hominen - it really advances your position and lends credibility to your argument. > Mate there is no scientific consensus that organic is more nutritional than non-organic. By moving the goalposts this way, you have ensured both that your statement is technically accurate and that it is irrelevant to this discussion. Needless to say (and it has been rehashed over and over), nothing in the world enjoys scientific consensus. Not climate change, not vaccination efficacy. Nevertheless, reasonable people make decisions based in part on positions that overwhelm, with solid evidence, the contrary position. Organic food is not designed to be more nutritious, although it often is (at least according to the EU study which came out this month and which is by far the largest and most rigorous study on the matter - http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2016/02/15/more-omega-3-in-organic-meat-and-milk-review-of-studies-says/ http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2016/02/15/more-omega-3...). It is designed to be less toxic, not only for the consumer but for the farm workers and the land. There is overwhelming evidence that organic farming achieves these goals. The one major study (the Stanford study, linked above) which deviates from this position is quite controversial (for the reasons I have also linked above). On the other hand, hundreds of studies around the world have shown that organic farming is effective. Here's one from two weeks ago: http://blog.journals.cambridge.org/2016/02/16/health-benefits-of-organic-milk-and-meat/ http://blog.journals.cambridge.org/2016/02/16/health-benefit...
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
Because it leads to useless comments like this: "Ha ha ha ha you think people are held back because their food isn't organic? Ha ha ha ha ha"
placeybordeaux 11y ago
In the case where there are three classes of food buyers non-fresh non-organic (can only purchase from restaurants, or convenience stores/gas stations) Fresh non-organic (has access to some fresh produce, but is not able to choose organic produce) Fresh organic (has full choice) The difference between the first two is extremely important and has a large effect on nutrition and percentage of income spent on food, while the difference between the second two has some benefit on nutrition and might benefit society as a whole. Living without access to fresh produce really sucks. I thankfully had a car when I lived in a food desert, but it still affected how frequently I ate home cooked meals.
- jMyles 11y ago
  Right. My priority is usually local (and, if animal product, humane) first, fresh second, organic third.