4 ms·

honest question: what does "Silicon-Valley-style programming" mean? I've been living in SF for 5+ years and I'll prob stay for a few more. But I can't see mysel

honest question: what does "Silicon-Valley-style programming" mean? I've been living in SF for 5+ years and I'll prob stay for a few more. But I can't see myself living for too long mainly because of rent and house prices. Europe, to me, looks a lot better (I'm thinking Berlin). But re: "Silicon-Valley-style programming", I don't see any difference here than any other similar place.

captain_trips 11y ago
So there are lots of programming jobs out there at places that are not like the valley. Thing Initech from Office Space - business casual dress code, gantt charts, dreary cubes, long death march schedules you have no control over, people are resources first, salaries are intentionally below market rate... I landed at one of these a few years ago and got out ASAP. They're out there, but not so much in the Bay Area because the talent war is so hot - any place like that wouldn't be able to hire or keep anyone.
- nommm-nommm 11y ago
  Most shops aren't like that. I don't do "SV style programming" but we have no dress code, no death March schedules, no charts, no meetings, etc. Same thing as my last job in another city. Though we also don't have ping pong, Foosball, stocked fridge, or many young people if that's what you are looking for. Oh, and not a lot of turnover either.
alain94040 11y ago
Silicon Valley style programming means working on consumer apps that have a chance of being used by thousands and millions of people. Especially in Europe, most programming goes to custom software for banking and various industries. There are very few Microsoft, Square or Google style companies in Europe, where software is the product. A lot of software is a cost center for something else. For some, it doesn't give them the same feeling of accomplishment.
- dreamdu5t 11y ago
  It's the same in Silicon Valley. Software developers are a "cost center" and balance sheets and accounting reflect that - even at companies like Google.
  - carc 11y ago
    Actually, assuming you're not just maintaining a code base (i.e. you're mostly adding features or making something new), the cost of software development is typically an asset on the balance sheet
  - hibikir 11y ago
    I've spent large chunks of my career in the Midwest as a consultant. Senior devs go into very long term consulting gigs because then companies can afford to pay us much more: we count as 100% capex. Companies that might pay an employee $110K a year will have zero problem paying rates that end up with take-homes of +$200K a year after paying your own benefits and taking vacation time off.
    - kvcrawford 11y ago
      Could you expand on that? I've snubbed contracting gigs in the past because I enjoy the often very generous healthcare plans at tech companies.
- mooreds 11y ago
  Dated, but still worth reading: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html Software development != software development
flaie 11y ago
It usually means working on apps used by a lot of people, entertaining stuff and exciting new technology. That "style" is not available in every part of the world. In some places of Europe it's most of the time just working for bank, insurance, industry or european institution with too old technology, long and fixed schedules and not so much excitement or feeling of making something useful. Add this to under-market salary, suits everyday, ... Developers are not killing it there, they just cost money, they don't have that aura of hype, respect, perks and all. But it's starting to change I guess (and hope).

captain_trips 11y ago

So there are lots of programming jobs out there at places that are not like the valley. Thing Initech from Office Space - business casual dress code, gantt charts, dreary cubes, long death march schedules you have no control over, people are resources first, salaries are intentionally below market rate... I landed at one of these a few years ago and got out ASAP. They're out there, but not so much in the Bay Area because the talent war is so hot - any place like that wouldn't be able to hire or keep anyone.

nommm-nommm 11y ago
Most shops aren't like that. I don't do "SV style programming" but we have no dress code, no death March schedules, no charts, no meetings, etc. Same thing as my last job in another city. Though we also don't have ping pong, Foosball, stocked fridge, or many young people if that's what you are looking for. Oh, and not a lot of turnover either.

alain94040 11y ago

Silicon Valley style programming means working on consumer apps that have a chance of being used by thousands and millions of people. Especially in Europe, most programming goes to custom software for banking and various industries. There are very few Microsoft, Square or Google style companies in Europe, where software is the product. A lot of software is a cost center for something else. For some, it doesn't give them the same feeling of accomplishment.

dreamdu5t 11y ago
It's the same in Silicon Valley. Software developers are a "cost center" and balance sheets and accounting reflect that - even at companies like Google.
- carc 11y ago
  Actually, assuming you're not just maintaining a code base (i.e. you're mostly adding features or making something new), the cost of software development is typically an asset on the balance sheet
- hibikir 11y ago
  I've spent large chunks of my career in the Midwest as a consultant. Senior devs go into very long term consulting gigs because then companies can afford to pay us much more: we count as 100% capex. Companies that might pay an employee $110K a year will have zero problem paying rates that end up with take-homes of +$200K a year after paying your own benefits and taking vacation time off.
  - kvcrawford 11y ago
    Could you expand on that? I've snubbed contracting gigs in the past because I enjoy the often very generous healthcare plans at tech companies.
mooreds 11y ago
Dated, but still worth reading: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html Software development != software development

flaie 11y ago

It usually means working on apps used by a lot of people, entertaining stuff and exciting new technology. That "style" is not available in every part of the world. In some places of Europe it's most of the time just working for bank, insurance, industry or european institution with too old technology, long and fixed schedules and not so much excitement or feeling of making something useful. Add this to under-market salary, suits everyday, ... Developers are not killing it there, they just cost money, they don't have that aura of hype, respect, perks and all. But it's starting to change I guess (and hope).