4 ms·

why don't you just say you don't like cars, instead of redefining what human culture means? that would be a lot easier.

HelloMcFly 11y ago
While I find the comment you replied to poorly stated, I think I can buy the point if modified slightly. No matter how great any city's culture is, cities that require one to spend a significant amount of time commuting inherently limit the culture that can be experienced in any given day. I don't see how an hour car ride vs. an hour bus/train/bike ride operates any differently in this regard though inasmuch as the time spent is non-optional for traversing the city.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- acchow 11y ago
  You were describing life in the valley, not the city. People in the city walk and bike and ride muni and uber.
  - HelloMcFly 11y ago
    Well, I wasn't describing anything, just thinking a little bit about a post I really didn't care for at first. I've never thought about the impact of travel on culture much, so I found it interesting.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  I think both of you have missed the point: you don't get culture from sitting on a freeway for 2 hours every day, all by yourself. You get it from sitting on a bus, going somewhere local, with a bunch of locals. The fact of the distance between things just makes the culture there so .. dire. Seriously. So much time spent traveling, so little actual human interaction beyond the parking lot.
trgn 11y ago
fit2rule said it a little brashly, but there's truth, beyond the fact that commuting in a car is just a drag. Cars have ruined the city, in very profound ways. There's the noise & pollution of course, but cars also made the city unsafe for children and seniors. The difference between a city that's been given to cars, and a city that has resisted it is incredibly stark. Even America's "walkable" cities, like SF, NYC and so on, are ever so inhuman, due to the cars. The young and poor tolerate it, and the rich can buy nice things to make it tolerable, but a city where cars have taken over pretty much half of the public realm is profoundly flawed. Required anecdote: I've lived and worked in Europe for a while in a city that's mostly pedestrian, and whatever traffic there was, was incredibly slow. It was basically an environment that was fully build-up, no nature-proper for miles, but it felt natural, human, and, well, "cultured". I stepped out the door in a place that was made for me, a feeble 6ft meatbag. Looking back at it, I find the feeling incomparable, and I miss it. I live in a US city now, in a verdant, central area of town. Mobility is never an issue. It has many of the same qualities you'd attribute to attractive urban neighborhoods, like stupendous architecture, lush gardens, good walkability, a variety of things close-by. But the streets are for cars. And it is jarring. They don't belong. They are too fast. The asphalt ribbons are ugly. The noise is out of place. Cars do have their place. They're very useful, for longer trips, hauling things, having a fun leisurely drive in the country. So I get why a family would want one or more. But cars are poison to cities, and it's been a terrible mistake to either have them take over our older cities, or design our new cities around them.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  People sitting on a bus, or taking a train together, are a lot less hostile than two people who just got out of their cars to complain at each other. Its just an observation. Of course there is culture in the Valley. Damned, expensive, culture.

While I find the comment you replied to poorly stated, I think I can buy the point if modified slightly. No matter how great any city's culture is, cities that require one to spend a significant amount of time commuting inherently limit the culture that can be experienced in any given day. I don't see how an hour car ride vs. an hour bus/train/bike ride operates any differently in this regard though inasmuch as the time spent is non-optional for traversing the city.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
acchow 11y ago
You were describing life in the valley, not the city. People in the city walk and bike and ride muni and uber.
- HelloMcFly 11y ago
  Well, I wasn't describing anything, just thinking a little bit about a post I really didn't care for at first. I've never thought about the impact of travel on culture much, so I found it interesting.
fit2rule 11y ago
I think both of you have missed the point: you don't get culture from sitting on a freeway for 2 hours every day, all by yourself. You get it from sitting on a bus, going somewhere local, with a bunch of locals. The fact of the distance between things just makes the culture there so .. dire. Seriously. So much time spent traveling, so little actual human interaction beyond the parking lot.

trgn 11y ago

fit2rule said it a little brashly, but there's truth, beyond the fact that commuting in a car is just a drag. Cars have ruined the city, in very profound ways. There's the noise & pollution of course, but cars also made the city unsafe for children and seniors. The difference between a city that's been given to cars, and a city that has resisted it is incredibly stark. Even America's "walkable" cities, like SF, NYC and so on, are ever so inhuman, due to the cars. The young and poor tolerate it, and the rich can buy nice things to make it tolerable, but a city where cars have taken over pretty much half of the public realm is profoundly flawed. Required anecdote: I've lived and worked in Europe for a while in a city that's mostly pedestrian, and whatever traffic there was, was incredibly slow. It was basically an environment that was fully build-up, no nature-proper for miles, but it felt natural, human, and, well, "cultured". I stepped out the door in a place that was made for me, a feeble 6ft meatbag. Looking back at it, I find the feeling incomparable, and I miss it. I live in a US city now, in a verdant, central area of town. Mobility is never an issue. It has many of the same qualities you'd attribute to attractive urban neighborhoods, like stupendous architecture, lush gardens, good walkability, a variety of things close-by. But the streets are for cars. And it is jarring. They don't belong. They are too fast. The asphalt ribbons are ugly. The noise is out of place. Cars do have their place. They're very useful, for longer trips, hauling things, having a fun leisurely drive in the country. So I get why a family would want one or more. But cars are poison to cities, and it's been a terrible mistake to either have them take over our older cities, or design our new cities around them.

fit2rule 11y ago
People sitting on a bus, or taking a train together, are a lot less hostile than two people who just got out of their cars to complain at each other. Its just an observation. Of course there is culture in the Valley. Damned, expensive, culture.