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Why does this stuff have to be networked though? My outside lights turn off and on each day with a timer switch that installed much like the networked switches

by brewdad 11y ago

Why does this stuff have to be networked though? My outside lights turn off and on each day with a timer switch that installed much like the networked switches today. I input the date and my zip code and now the timer adjusts for the sunset/sunrise throughout the year. It will even randomize the timing +/- 30 minutes so it's not quite as obvious to any observers. I've had this setup for almost 11 years now and it cost me ~$30. Programmable thermostats have been a thing for about 20 years now. There is no need to have these things networked for only a slight gain in convenience. I'm pretty certain I can turn my thermostat down for vacations in less time than it would take to launch an app and do it.

thfuran 11y ago
If the logic is baked into the each of the lowest-level control elements (like the switch/timer that controls your lights) there's no flexibility. What if you later decide you want the lights to turn off from 3-5AM or to turn on 20 minutes earlier than the timer decides? I suppose you could conceivably have a re-programmable but non-networked timer for them, but that still prevents you from establishing more complicated interactions between devices. What if you only want the exterior lights to be on before you arrive home and so you want your phone being connected to your home wifi to override the timer rule?
tdkl 11y ago
Probably because since the 2007 when the mobile bonanza started, everything has to be "apped" and sold on shiny websites, animations, cute logos etc. "There's an app for that" is one of the main reasons for this insanity.
manyxcxi 11y ago
I don't think each needs to be networked, at least not via IP or directly to the Internet. In fact, I'm hoping the design goes towards local protocols and hubs that are directly connected. Your programmable thermostat very likely doesn't accommodate the situation where you're out of town for 8 days over the winter holidays and you need it to be just warm enough to not have pipes freeze, and you want it to be warm when you show up with your two toddlers and pregnant wife at 7pm (bedtime). Also, what if you can't remember if you actually turned the heat down or not? Also, I'm sure you can't turn your thermostat down in less time as I have a Vacation Mode shortcut button that I can access from the Today pull down in iOS that sets the thermostat to 55, turns off all the lights, and turns on motion detection notifications- without unlocking my phone. I'm being pedantic, but it is truly that easy. Your light switches hooked up to a surprisingly power hungry timer don't tell you that they actually turned on when you're gone. Can't remember if you left the living room on and you're out of town? Check your phone. Using a local communication protocol helps keep your gadgets from leaking your info all over the Internet like those god forsaken Internet cameras and such are doing these days, and the hubs they connect to allow you to actually interface with them remotely. This leaves the hubs as the weakest remote link, but in that case you only have to worry about one vendor getting it right instead of every vendor. It doesn't remove the risk, but it certainly makes it more manageable. Z-wave and ZigBee both have their flaws, especially around security, but they do have the advantage of not making everything in your house addressable from the Internet. These things aren't necessary, but they're not frivolous. They already are bringing efficiencies with not all that much effort.

by brewdad 11y ago

thfuran 11y ago

If the logic is baked into the each of the lowest-level control elements (like the switch/timer that controls your lights) there's no flexibility. What if you later decide you want the lights to turn off from 3-5AM or to turn on 20 minutes earlier than the timer decides? I suppose you could conceivably have a re-programmable but non-networked timer for them, but that still prevents you from establishing more complicated interactions between devices. What if you only want the exterior lights to be on before you arrive home and so you want your phone being connected to your home wifi to override the timer rule?

tdkl 11y ago

Probably because since the 2007 when the mobile bonanza started, everything has to be "apped" and sold on shiny websites, animations, cute logos etc. "There's an app for that" is one of the main reasons for this insanity.

manyxcxi 11y ago

I don't think each needs to be networked, at least not via IP or directly to the Internet. In fact, I'm hoping the design goes towards local protocols and hubs that are directly connected. Your programmable thermostat very likely doesn't accommodate the situation where you're out of town for 8 days over the winter holidays and you need it to be just warm enough to not have pipes freeze, and you want it to be warm when you show up with your two toddlers and pregnant wife at 7pm (bedtime). Also, what if you can't remember if you actually turned the heat down or not? Also, I'm sure you can't turn your thermostat down in less time as I have a Vacation Mode shortcut button that I can access from the Today pull down in iOS that sets the thermostat to 55, turns off all the lights, and turns on motion detection notifications- without unlocking my phone. I'm being pedantic, but it is truly that easy. Your light switches hooked up to a surprisingly power hungry timer don't tell you that they actually turned on when you're gone. Can't remember if you left the living room on and you're out of town? Check your phone. Using a local communication protocol helps keep your gadgets from leaking your info all over the Internet like those god forsaken Internet cameras and such are doing these days, and the hubs they connect to allow you to actually interface with them remotely. This leaves the hubs as the weakest remote link, but in that case you only have to worry about one vendor getting it right instead of every vendor. It doesn't remove the risk, but it certainly makes it more manageable. Z-wave and ZigBee both have their flaws, especially around security, but they do have the advantage of not making everything in your house addressable from the Internet. These things aren't necessary, but they're not frivolous. They already are bringing efficiencies with not all that much effort.