12 ms·

I look forward to the future where I can come home and my space will welcome me individually, turning on lights, media, and climate to my personal preferences,

by imglorp 11y ago

I look forward to the future where I can come home and my space will welcome me individually, turning on lights, media, and climate to my personal preferences, and respond to "tea, earl gray, hot" at any time. My groceries and other expendables will replenish as they run low; menu planning will stock more. I'll get a chime when my kids arrive home, and another if their love interest show up after hours. Etc etc. All this information will be held strictly per my privacy settings and is fully encrypted when offsite. Now, the real question is, how do we get there, integrated and private, without selling out the whole stack to 100 different vendors with different API's, without one of them hacking the rest of your network, and without your government either hacking you, hacking one of those vendors, or just pressuring them for your data? I don't have an answer.

mhurron 11y ago
> the real question is, how do we get there, integrated and private, without selling out We don't, because people don't care.
- StavrosK 11y ago
  This is the real (and depressing) answer. Same as our mobile phones, people will trade their privacy for a graph of how stocked their fridge is compared to other households.
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    People trade their privacy because they don't see any alternative. https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/publications/tradeoff-fallacy-how-marketers-are-misrepresenting-american-consumers-and https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/publications/tradeoff-... (or, in some cases, they don't understand how much privacy they are giving up)
tremon 11y ago
I'll get a chime when my kids arrive home, and another if their love interest show up after hours I imagine your kids (and potential interests) might have something to say about that. Taking that to its logical extreme, how is your desire to invasively monitor people in your care any different from what the government is doing?
- true_religion 11y ago
  Without using IoT as an example. Parents are permitted to sit on their porches and wait for their children to arrive home. Government agents aren't permitted the same right.
  - darpa_escapee 11y ago
    What's the difference between this and a CCTV camera or cop on your street corner?
    - hrehhf 11y ago
      Depending on how frequent or for how long, that would also be illegal. See http://www.dailytech.com/Federal+Court+Cops+Cant+Spy+on+Your+Yard+and+Home+Without+Warrant/article37002.htm http://www.dailytech.com/Federal+Court+Cops+Cant+Spy+on+Your... Or the ruling itself: https://www.eff.org/files/2014/12/15/vargas_order.pdf https://www.eff.org/files/2014/12/15/vargas_order.pdf From the ruling: "The Court rules that the Constitution permits law enforcement officers to remotely and continuously view and record an individual’s front yard (and the activities and people thereon) through the use of a hidden video camera concealed off of the individual’s property but only upon obtaining a search warrant from a judge based on a showing of probable cause to believe criminal activity was occurring. The American people have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the activities occurring in and around the front yard of their homes particularly where the home is located in a very rural, isolated setting. This reasonable expectation of privacy prohibits the warrantless, continuous, and covert recording of Mr. Vargas’ front yard for six weeks."
      - darpa_escapee 11y ago
        I don't need to record your property to see who arrives to and leaves from your home. Having that ability is also convenient, even if you can't use the evidence in a court of law. It could lead to obtaining evidence that can be procured in legitimate ways.
    - massysett 11y ago
CaptSpify 11y ago
Honestly I think open-source and sane-defaults are the answer to this. I use to have one of these cameras, but before this news broke out, I'd replaced it with an rpi. My lights are controlled with an rpi, and code I've written myself. My computer talks to me. All of these things are doable with open-source, it's just that we're prioritizing closed-source devices. FOSS doesn't solve every problem we currently have with IoT, but it can if we give it enough power to.
vlunkr 11y ago
I honestly don't think that future is worth the cost. Some of those things would be great, but controlling lights with Iot? Why? Aren't we solving a problem that doesn't need to be solved? I currently spend roughly 0% of my time thinking about and managing light switches, the system works great as is. Same goes for turning on media and setting the temperature. These things just work and they are bug free. I can only see them getting worse by adding networking and software. Of course, it's a different argument when your house starts making food for you, but but I think I'll still lean towards maintaining my current system.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  Media devices don't really work that well. For example, my cable box comes with a remote that has a 'turn everything on' macro button. Except there's no integration, it just blasts the power toggle IR for the TV. Does it work? Yeah. Does it work well? No. Buying a single brand and carefully selecting devices can help with that sort of thing, but it's BS you have to be careful to get any integration, it should just work.
  - vlunkr 11y ago
    That's true, somehow universal remotes aren't that great still. At this point I have to use a TV remote and a Roku remote. I tend to not use surround sound just because that requires yet another remote. But still, this is a problem that can be solved with better device integration, rather than connecting everything to the internet.
  - jonknee 11y ago
    FWIW, the Logitech Harmony Home Hub was my favorite tech purchase last year. Slightly annoying to setup, but rock solid. I put all my other remotes away in a cabinet last year and haven't once used any of them. I only use it for media devices, but it can also control some other home automated stuff (lights, blinds, etc).
  - joncrocks 11y ago
    A good number of newer devices ship with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC which is meant to help with this type of thing. I'd agree that a lot of the time it still doesn't work 'well' though.
zx2c4 11y ago
Why have all that when you could instead indulge in the 80s Clapper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clapper Clip clap!
elorant 11y ago
We get there with robots. You have one personal assistant, or call it whatever you like, where you program your references and it’s the only programming device in your house. It handles the appliances which could be as dumb as they are today and we have a single point of failure security-wise. We don’t need Internet-connected fridges, and TV’s, and thermostats and all that crap. This is a future that has been envisioned decades ago by sci-fi authors. Perhaps it’s time to start making it a reality.
Mikushi 11y ago
The real question for me is are you really that lazy? I'm not being cheeky.

by imglorp 11y ago

mhurron 11y ago

> the real question is, how do we get there, integrated and private, without selling out We don't, because people don't care.

StavrosK 11y ago
This is the real (and depressing) answer. Same as our mobile phones, people will trade their privacy for a graph of how stocked their fridge is compared to other households.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  People trade their privacy because they don't see any alternative. https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/publications/tradeoff-fallacy-how-marketers-are-misrepresenting-american-consumers-and https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/publications/tradeoff-... (or, in some cases, they don't understand how much privacy they are giving up)

tremon 11y ago

I'll get a chime when my kids arrive home, and another if their love interest show up after hours I imagine your kids (and potential interests) might have something to say about that. Taking that to its logical extreme, how is your desire to invasively monitor people in your care any different from what the government is doing?

true_religion 11y ago
Without using IoT as an example. Parents are permitted to sit on their porches and wait for their children to arrive home. Government agents aren't permitted the same right.
- darpa_escapee 11y ago
  What's the difference between this and a CCTV camera or cop on your street corner?
  - hrehhf 11y ago
    Depending on how frequent or for how long, that would also be illegal. See http://www.dailytech.com/Federal+Court+Cops+Cant+Spy+on+Your+Yard+and+Home+Without+Warrant/article37002.htm http://www.dailytech.com/Federal+Court+Cops+Cant+Spy+on+Your... Or the ruling itself: https://www.eff.org/files/2014/12/15/vargas_order.pdf https://www.eff.org/files/2014/12/15/vargas_order.pdf From the ruling: "The Court rules that the Constitution permits law enforcement officers to remotely and continuously view and record an individual’s front yard (and the activities and people thereon) through the use of a hidden video camera concealed off of the individual’s property but only upon obtaining a search warrant from a judge based on a showing of probable cause to believe criminal activity was occurring. The American people have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the activities occurring in and around the front yard of their homes particularly where the home is located in a very rural, isolated setting. This reasonable expectation of privacy prohibits the warrantless, continuous, and covert recording of Mr. Vargas’ front yard for six weeks."
    - darpa_escapee 11y ago
      I don't need to record your property to see who arrives to and leaves from your home. Having that ability is also convenient, even if you can't use the evidence in a court of law. It could lead to obtaining evidence that can be procured in legitimate ways.
  - massysett 11y ago

CaptSpify 11y ago

Honestly I think open-source and sane-defaults are the answer to this. I use to have one of these cameras, but before this news broke out, I'd replaced it with an rpi. My lights are controlled with an rpi, and code I've written myself. My computer talks to me. All of these things are doable with open-source, it's just that we're prioritizing closed-source devices. FOSS doesn't solve every problem we currently have with IoT, but it can if we give it enough power to.

vlunkr 11y ago

I honestly don't think that future is worth the cost. Some of those things would be great, but controlling lights with Iot? Why? Aren't we solving a problem that doesn't need to be solved? I currently spend roughly 0% of my time thinking about and managing light switches, the system works great as is. Same goes for turning on media and setting the temperature. These things just work and they are bug free. I can only see them getting worse by adding networking and software. Of course, it's a different argument when your house starts making food for you, but but I think I'll still lean towards maintaining my current system.

maxerickson 11y ago
Media devices don't really work that well. For example, my cable box comes with a remote that has a 'turn everything on' macro button. Except there's no integration, it just blasts the power toggle IR for the TV. Does it work? Yeah. Does it work well? No. Buying a single brand and carefully selecting devices can help with that sort of thing, but it's BS you have to be careful to get any integration, it should just work.
- vlunkr 11y ago
  That's true, somehow universal remotes aren't that great still. At this point I have to use a TV remote and a Roku remote. I tend to not use surround sound just because that requires yet another remote. But still, this is a problem that can be solved with better device integration, rather than connecting everything to the internet.
- jonknee 11y ago
  FWIW, the Logitech Harmony Home Hub was my favorite tech purchase last year. Slightly annoying to setup, but rock solid. I put all my other remotes away in a cabinet last year and haven't once used any of them. I only use it for media devices, but it can also control some other home automated stuff (lights, blinds, etc).
- joncrocks 11y ago
  A good number of newer devices ship with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC which is meant to help with this type of thing. I'd agree that a lot of the time it still doesn't work 'well' though.

zx2c4 11y ago

Why have all that when you could instead indulge in the 80s Clapper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clapper Clip clap!

elorant 11y ago

We get there with robots. You have one personal assistant, or call it whatever you like, where you program your references and it’s the only programming device in your house. It handles the appliances which could be as dumb as they are today and we have a single point of failure security-wise. We don’t need Internet-connected fridges, and TV’s, and thermostats and all that crap. This is a future that has been envisioned decades ago by sci-fi authors. Perhaps it’s time to start making it a reality.

Mikushi 11y ago

The real question for me is are you really that lazy? I'm not being cheeky.