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Though you should be honest and note that no one is making $85K after 6 months or less of training. Those people are obviously filling positions, but not the $8

Though you should be honest and note that no one is making $85K after 6 months or less of training. Those people are obviously filling positions, but not the $85K ones.

PaulHoule 11y ago
I dunno. One thing I do know is that in the same geographic area you will commonly find two programmers who do similar things but one of them gets paid twice as much as the other. It may be true that one is more productive than another, but if you talk with the boss in either situation the story you will hear is that they have a budget to pay somebody $X and so they pay $X and that is non-negotiable.
akavi 11y ago
I personally know five people who landed salaries of 100 k$/yr or more after three months of programming training. That's five people whom I'm on close enough terms with to overcome the salary discussion taboo. So I imagine there are many, many, many more.
- sciurus 11y ago
  If you don't mind a few questions: In what city? At what type of companies? With what kind of previous educational and career background?
  - akavi 11y ago
    SF/NYC. Liberal arts college degrees from well-regarded universities, public and private. Minimal previous careers (none were more than two years out of college), but all non-technical. The jobs are at various smallish, startup-ish web oriented tech companies.
    - sciurus 11y ago
      Thanks for filling in more useful details!
- lsaferite 11y ago
  And were they able to keep those jobs? I firmly believe that programming is a creative and not production job. With that in mind, some people are naturals and everything just clicks for them. Others are perhaps silver tongued and can talk their way into the job even without the needed skills up front. Those will either learn on the job, ride on coat tails, or flame out. And then you have those who clearly have no clue and the hiring process was flawed in some deep way. The real test is, do they still have the job 3/6/12 months later? If the answer is yes, then either they deserve the salary or their boss doesn't.
  - akavi 11y ago
    Four of them are more than two years on. The last just started, so we'll see. I think you underestimate the number of people for whom it clicks. Programming does seem to require a certain amount of general intelligence, but the notion of an innate specific talent being required for it isn't supported by my experience.

Though you should be honest and note that no one is making $85K after 6 months or less of training. Those people are obviously filling positions, but not the $85K ones.

PaulHoule 11y ago

I dunno. One thing I do know is that in the same geographic area you will commonly find two programmers who do similar things but one of them gets paid twice as much as the other. It may be true that one is more productive than another, but if you talk with the boss in either situation the story you will hear is that they have a budget to pay somebody $X and so they pay $X and that is non-negotiable.

akavi 11y ago

I personally know five people who landed salaries of 100 k$/yr or more after three months of programming training. That's five people whom I'm on close enough terms with to overcome the salary discussion taboo. So I imagine there are many, many, many more.

sciurus 11y ago
If you don't mind a few questions: In what city? At what type of companies? With what kind of previous educational and career background?
- akavi 11y ago
  SF/NYC. Liberal arts college degrees from well-regarded universities, public and private. Minimal previous careers (none were more than two years out of college), but all non-technical. The jobs are at various smallish, startup-ish web oriented tech companies.
  - sciurus 11y ago
    Thanks for filling in more useful details!
lsaferite 11y ago
And were they able to keep those jobs? I firmly believe that programming is a creative and not production job. With that in mind, some people are naturals and everything just clicks for them. Others are perhaps silver tongued and can talk their way into the job even without the needed skills up front. Those will either learn on the job, ride on coat tails, or flame out. And then you have those who clearly have no clue and the hiring process was flawed in some deep way. The real test is, do they still have the job 3/6/12 months later? If the answer is yes, then either they deserve the salary or their boss doesn't.
- akavi 11y ago
  Four of them are more than two years on. The last just started, so we'll see. I think you underestimate the number of people for whom it clicks. Programming does seem to require a certain amount of general intelligence, but the notion of an innate specific talent being required for it isn't supported by my experience.