5 ms·

I love that MS tries to push the boundaries with new tech and ideas, but I absolutely loathe them because of their fake marketing of the products they actually

I love that MS tries to push the boundaries with new tech and ideas, but I absolutely loathe them because of their fake marketing of the products they actually do end up creating. Let me take this moment to remind everyone of the Kinect teaser [1]. Now watch the Hololens teaser again [2]. They couldn't deliver the Kinect as advertised 6 years ago, and the fact is they won't be able to deliver the Hololens either as advertised. $3000 is a lot of money to put on a lie. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qlHoxPioM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qlHoxPioM [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aThCr0PsyuA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aThCr0PsyuA

embik 11y ago
It's fascinating to compare the comment sections under both videos. The first one is full of loathing and mockery for Microsoft and the features they simply did not deliver, the second one boils down to "this is the future, Microsoft is building the future". I wonder how the Hololens comments will look a few years from today.
- hacker_9 11y ago
  My favourite: The games: - Fake Fighter 2 Turbo - Project Fake Racing - FakeZilla - Fifa Fakeball 2009 - Tony Hawk's Fake Skater 9
fsloth 11y ago
"$3000 is a lot of money to put on a lie." Nonsense, $3000 is peanuts compared to the costs to actually write anything for it. I.e. if you are expecting to be entertained by the device and not augment your creative or professional output by it you are probably not in the core market. I have no idea how it will turn out but it's not a VR helmet as such, it's a wearable HUD with AR capabilities.
- hacker_9 11y ago
  Oh I know exactly what it is, and I am a developer with the money who could buy it. But why would I when I know it will be nothing like what they said it is? I think I'll wait and watch the inevitable backlash before I spend my money.
  - shmed 11y ago
    >I think I'll wait and watch the inevitable backlash before I spend my money. To the opposite of Kinect, a LOT of tech journalist and enthusiast tried hololens. Feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, with only issues about the field of view being raised. I personally tried Hololens, I was blown away by the technology. I own an Oculus Rift DK2 and I tried the unreleased consumer version of oculus rift. They are both great technology, and Oculus clearly offer a more immersive gaming experience, but I personally saw more potential with hololens, and generally speaking I thought the technology was cooler. Anyway, if you are genuinely interested, you should definitely try to get at any of the event where they allow people to try it out.
elbear 11y ago
I can understand the feeling of betrayal, but do you think they did it on purpose? I rather assume they were overly optimistic and reality made it harder to deliver on their promises.
- hacker_9 11y ago
  That's naive. They are always looking to maximise profits, and what better way than to sell it as a dream product way ahead of any of it's competitors?
  - teye23452 11y ago
    That is overly pessimistic. Given the years of research that went into this product and obviously has continued into the hololens - I highly doubt it was for this little scheme you mention.
  - partiallypro 11y ago
    Do you honestly think Microsoft is going to make a killer profit from Hololens from selling dev kits? Give me a break. The technology and cost behind this is astronomical, Microsoft is likely selling this close to cost. People are singling out Microsoft here, but seemingly forget all of the promises Apple and Google are always making, when Google had to can Glass and Apple can't even get Airdrop to work correctly.
  - Someone 11y ago
    I'm not making any judgment call on this product, but selling something as a dream product at a high price and delivering a product that disappoints as a dream product can give the mass market, where the bulk of the money is, to a competitor coming out with a product that is inferior in features to your v1 product, even if your v2 product ships at the same time as your competitor's product with better features at a lower price.
- crusso 11y ago
  but do you think they did it on purpose That's why you look at track record to assess behavior. If it happens once, you can forgive it as optimism or somesuch. If it's a pattern, you would then need to assume it's deliberate.
thro1237 11y ago
I am not a gamer, but I bought an XBox 360 and Kinect because it had the messenger app and my parents 10000 miles away can see their grandkids who are always running around. And it worked really well. Then one day, they dropped support for messenger. Now, if you want to have the same functionality, you have to get an XBOX One that integrates with Skype. Several people complained in Microsoft forums about taking away a functionality they explicitly paid for. They were greeted with a link to the legal Terms of Service. That is it. I am not going to get something from a company that does this bait and switch.
- KirinDave 11y ago
  And who is that? I'm curious. I'm not here to say that MS doesn't have people doing bullshit marketing powerplays like the one you described. But in the console market, that's pretty much how the business works. And in the larger PC market, you've got 3 realistic options and they're all frustrating in one way or another.
- KirinDave 11y ago
  And who is that? I'm curious. I'm not here to say that MS doesn't have people doing bullshit marketing powerplays like the one you described. But in the console market, that's pretty much how the business works. And in the larger PC market, you've got 3 realistic options and they're all frustrating in one way or another.
- pjc50 11y ago
  Ouch, I'd not heard about that particular bit of functionality removal.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - thro1237 11y ago
    They removed a perfectly working functionality. At the time of removal they said it was because they wanted to bring in Skype to XBOX 360. But skype never came to Xbox 360 and it came only in XBox One. This entire feature that is touted in this video [1] is not available in Xbox 360 now. And I bought an XBox 360 because Microsoft's marketing material said it is available. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsTimrYTIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsTimrYTIQ
kefka 11y ago
And the [2] video is already a steaming pile of bullshit. The AR side is equivalent of taking a 6" phablet and holding it at arms length: that dinky rectangle is your augmented viewport. It doesn't do anywhere near a full AR on everything everywhere you look.
- hacker_9 11y ago
  Exactly. But what you described won't make money so we get these videos that don't take place in reality. Majority of non-technical users believe them too hence the hype. I'm interested to see how the reaction changes once hololens comes out.
  - kefka 11y ago
    If anything, I would consider their videos and their dishonesty as fraudulent. It's also telling, that my previous post in this article was modded down pretty hard. a few of us went to Chicago to demo this, and I was sorely unimpressed. And the AR was only one facet. The bigger problem is their choice of active scanned IR. They mentioned that their new API will to geocode everything you scan with GPS points, reference points (wifi) and other ways of triangulation. And those points will be linked to Lat/Lon. That sounds exciting and scary both... but with failure to adapt to that huge glowing ball of wideband radiation means the Hololens is a fail outside or near windows. I guess that leaves the basements to us?
    - shpx 11y ago
      > And those points will be linked to Lat/Lon Do they "conveniently" upload all this to "the cloud" too?
      - kefka 11y ago
        The "Product Evangelists" refused to answer that, by talking about how Cool the platform was. And it was also limited by the fact that there were only about 7 minutes of questions taken. My guess is that yes, they would sync to MS local maps of your environments. It would make a great deal of sense, as that's where Google has a huge hole in on their maps service. It would put MS on the "map", literally and figuratively.
buraksarica 11y ago
There is a difference for Hololens, they already presented half of the goodies in the video LIVE.
- twoodfin 11y ago
  I suspect that in the environment of a highly-controlled demo, a Kinect could appear to do most of what you see in its "teaser".
- hacker_9 11y ago
  Yes I've seen the video, and it scares me to what lengths they will go to to lie, and fool people such as yourself. Video [1] for those who haven't seen it (skip to 2:25). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgakdcEzVwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgakdcEzVwg
- 7Z7 11y ago
  When people experience the actual FoV of the Hololens they will be disappointed, because MS has engineered the demo to appear edge-to-edge.

embik 11y ago

It's fascinating to compare the comment sections under both videos. The first one is full of loathing and mockery for Microsoft and the features they simply did not deliver, the second one boils down to "this is the future, Microsoft is building the future". I wonder how the Hololens comments will look a few years from today.

hacker_9 11y ago
My favourite: The games: - Fake Fighter 2 Turbo - Project Fake Racing - FakeZilla - Fifa Fakeball 2009 - Tony Hawk's Fake Skater 9

fsloth 11y ago

"$3000 is a lot of money to put on a lie." Nonsense, $3000 is peanuts compared to the costs to actually write anything for it. I.e. if you are expecting to be entertained by the device and not augment your creative or professional output by it you are probably not in the core market. I have no idea how it will turn out but it's not a VR helmet as such, it's a wearable HUD with AR capabilities.

hacker_9 11y ago
Oh I know exactly what it is, and I am a developer with the money who could buy it. But why would I when I know it will be nothing like what they said it is? I think I'll wait and watch the inevitable backlash before I spend my money.
- shmed 11y ago
  >I think I'll wait and watch the inevitable backlash before I spend my money. To the opposite of Kinect, a LOT of tech journalist and enthusiast tried hololens. Feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, with only issues about the field of view being raised. I personally tried Hololens, I was blown away by the technology. I own an Oculus Rift DK2 and I tried the unreleased consumer version of oculus rift. They are both great technology, and Oculus clearly offer a more immersive gaming experience, but I personally saw more potential with hololens, and generally speaking I thought the technology was cooler. Anyway, if you are genuinely interested, you should definitely try to get at any of the event where they allow people to try it out.

elbear 11y ago

I can understand the feeling of betrayal, but do you think they did it on purpose? I rather assume they were overly optimistic and reality made it harder to deliver on their promises.

hacker_9 11y ago
That's naive. They are always looking to maximise profits, and what better way than to sell it as a dream product way ahead of any of it's competitors?
- teye23452 11y ago
  That is overly pessimistic. Given the years of research that went into this product and obviously has continued into the hololens - I highly doubt it was for this little scheme you mention.
- partiallypro 11y ago
  Do you honestly think Microsoft is going to make a killer profit from Hololens from selling dev kits? Give me a break. The technology and cost behind this is astronomical, Microsoft is likely selling this close to cost. People are singling out Microsoft here, but seemingly forget all of the promises Apple and Google are always making, when Google had to can Glass and Apple can't even get Airdrop to work correctly.
- Someone 11y ago
  I'm not making any judgment call on this product, but selling something as a dream product at a high price and delivering a product that disappoints as a dream product can give the mass market, where the bulk of the money is, to a competitor coming out with a product that is inferior in features to your v1 product, even if your v2 product ships at the same time as your competitor's product with better features at a lower price.
crusso 11y ago
but do you think they did it on purpose That's why you look at track record to assess behavior. If it happens once, you can forgive it as optimism or somesuch. If it's a pattern, you would then need to assume it's deliberate.

thro1237 11y ago

I am not a gamer, but I bought an XBox 360 and Kinect because it had the messenger app and my parents 10000 miles away can see their grandkids who are always running around. And it worked really well. Then one day, they dropped support for messenger. Now, if you want to have the same functionality, you have to get an XBOX One that integrates with Skype. Several people complained in Microsoft forums about taking away a functionality they explicitly paid for. They were greeted with a link to the legal Terms of Service. That is it. I am not going to get something from a company that does this bait and switch.

KirinDave 11y ago
And who is that? I'm curious. I'm not here to say that MS doesn't have people doing bullshit marketing powerplays like the one you described. But in the console market, that's pretty much how the business works. And in the larger PC market, you've got 3 realistic options and they're all frustrating in one way or another.
KirinDave 11y ago
And who is that? I'm curious. I'm not here to say that MS doesn't have people doing bullshit marketing powerplays like the one you described. But in the console market, that's pretty much how the business works. And in the larger PC market, you've got 3 realistic options and they're all frustrating in one way or another.
pjc50 11y ago
Ouch, I'd not heard about that particular bit of functionality removal.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- thro1237 11y ago
  They removed a perfectly working functionality. At the time of removal they said it was because they wanted to bring in Skype to XBOX 360. But skype never came to Xbox 360 and it came only in XBox One. This entire feature that is touted in this video [1] is not available in Xbox 360 now. And I bought an XBox 360 because Microsoft's marketing material said it is available. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsTimrYTIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsTimrYTIQ

kefka 11y ago

And the [2] video is already a steaming pile of bullshit. The AR side is equivalent of taking a 6" phablet and holding it at arms length: that dinky rectangle is your augmented viewport. It doesn't do anywhere near a full AR on everything everywhere you look.

hacker_9 11y ago
Exactly. But what you described won't make money so we get these videos that don't take place in reality. Majority of non-technical users believe them too hence the hype. I'm interested to see how the reaction changes once hololens comes out.
- kefka 11y ago
  If anything, I would consider their videos and their dishonesty as fraudulent. It's also telling, that my previous post in this article was modded down pretty hard. a few of us went to Chicago to demo this, and I was sorely unimpressed. And the AR was only one facet. The bigger problem is their choice of active scanned IR. They mentioned that their new API will to geocode everything you scan with GPS points, reference points (wifi) and other ways of triangulation. And those points will be linked to Lat/Lon. That sounds exciting and scary both... but with failure to adapt to that huge glowing ball of wideband radiation means the Hololens is a fail outside or near windows. I guess that leaves the basements to us?
  - shpx 11y ago
    > And those points will be linked to Lat/Lon Do they "conveniently" upload all this to "the cloud" too?
    - kefka 11y ago
      The "Product Evangelists" refused to answer that, by talking about how Cool the platform was. And it was also limited by the fact that there were only about 7 minutes of questions taken. My guess is that yes, they would sync to MS local maps of your environments. It would make a great deal of sense, as that's where Google has a huge hole in on their maps service. It would put MS on the "map", literally and figuratively.

buraksarica 11y ago

There is a difference for Hololens, they already presented half of the goodies in the video LIVE.

twoodfin 11y ago
I suspect that in the environment of a highly-controlled demo, a Kinect could appear to do most of what you see in its "teaser".
hacker_9 11y ago
Yes I've seen the video, and it scares me to what lengths they will go to to lie, and fool people such as yourself. Video [1] for those who haven't seen it (skip to 2:25). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgakdcEzVwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgakdcEzVwg
7Z7 11y ago
When people experience the actual FoV of the Hololens they will be disappointed, because MS has engineered the demo to appear edge-to-edge.