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> "why would I use Bitcoin when I can use existing payment methods?" Bitcoin can be used for other reasons beyond payment system transactions; for example, a b

by kanzure 11y ago

> "why would I use Bitcoin when I can use existing payment methods?" Bitcoin can be used for other reasons beyond payment system transactions; for example, a bunch of coins are stored in cold wallets, as a physical store of value which cannot be confiscated. Market fluctuations still happen but that's unrelated to physical coin storage.

TylerE 11y ago
I've never believed this line of logic at all. You really think in a serious shit-hits-the-fan scenario (be it natural disaster, government takeover, whatever) you are going to have reliable internet connectivity?
- kanzure 11y ago
  Yeah, I expect sneakernet to work pretty well. A few weeks is way better than nothing. Also, you don't need to use an active internet connection to make reliable zero-confirmation transactions (see lightning network, although it's true that monitoring for confirmations requires internet data- so you have to set the timeouts to be way way into the future, which is reasonable and not unexpected).
  - TylerE 11y ago
    How on earth does that work? Forget double spends, here come the quadruple and quintuple spends! Zero-conf is fundamentally broken.
    - kanzure 11y ago
      > Zero-conf is fundamentally broken. Yep. Double-spending zero-conf transactions can work as long as you are using a payment channel (where the other side is receiving each transaction). That's how the "payment channel" concepts work.
- brianwawok 11y ago
  If the s hits the fan, the only currency is guns and ammo.
- monort 11y ago
  During relatively low intensity conflicts mobile networks usually work, e.g. in Syria or Ukraine. I think it's the most common scenario in the modern time for shit-hits-the-fan. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/zh/originals/2015/04/aleppo-rebel-control-internet-networks-syria-turkey.html http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/zh/originals/2015/04/aleppo-... http://dlca.logcluster.org/display/public/DLCA/3.4+Ukraine+Telecommunications#id-3.4UkraineTelecommunications-AdditionalMobileConnections http://dlca.logcluster.org/display/public/DLCA/3.4+Ukraine+T...

by kanzure 11y ago

TylerE 11y ago

I've never believed this line of logic at all. You really think in a serious shit-hits-the-fan scenario (be it natural disaster, government takeover, whatever) you are going to have reliable internet connectivity?

kanzure 11y ago
Yeah, I expect sneakernet to work pretty well. A few weeks is way better than nothing. Also, you don't need to use an active internet connection to make reliable zero-confirmation transactions (see lightning network, although it's true that monitoring for confirmations requires internet data- so you have to set the timeouts to be way way into the future, which is reasonable and not unexpected).
- TylerE 11y ago
  How on earth does that work? Forget double spends, here come the quadruple and quintuple spends! Zero-conf is fundamentally broken.
  - kanzure 11y ago
    > Zero-conf is fundamentally broken. Yep. Double-spending zero-conf transactions can work as long as you are using a payment channel (where the other side is receiving each transaction). That's how the "payment channel" concepts work.
brianwawok 11y ago
If the s hits the fan, the only currency is guns and ammo.
monort 11y ago
During relatively low intensity conflicts mobile networks usually work, e.g. in Syria or Ukraine. I think it's the most common scenario in the modern time for shit-hits-the-fan. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/zh/originals/2015/04/aleppo-rebel-control-internet-networks-syria-turkey.html http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/zh/originals/2015/04/aleppo-... http://dlca.logcluster.org/display/public/DLCA/3.4+Ukraine+Telecommunications#id-3.4UkraineTelecommunications-AdditionalMobileConnections http://dlca.logcluster.org/display/public/DLCA/3.4+Ukraine+T...