5 ms·

Was ‘Australi Witness’ a troll or a terrorist?

30 points by temp 11y ago

a_bonobo 11y ago
>His psychiatric evaluation, released through a Freedom of Information Act request filed by several news organizations, describes him as suffering from “grandiosity” and “delusions of persecution.” That describes every troll in the entire Internet.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  I dunno, some of 'em are just assholes.
  - a_bonobo 11y ago
    This paper made the rounds a few years back: >Both studies revealed similar patterns of relations between trolling and the Dark Tetrad of personality: trolling correlated positively with sadism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism, using both enjoyment ratings and identity scores. Of all personality measures, sadism showed the most robust associations with trolling and, importantly, the relationship was specific to trolling behavior. Enjoyment of other online activities, such as chatting and debating, was unrelated to sadism. Thus cyber-trolling appears to be an Internet manifestation of everyday sadism. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886914000324 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886914... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7241233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7241233
- contingencies 11y ago
  I'm not so sure it's very different offline.
- GunboatDiplomat 11y ago
  Wait, how are we defining trolling? I'd say this kid went above and beyond what would be "trolling." Trolling is trying to get a rise out of people on a discussion board or twitter or similar. Trolling is not encouraging terrorists to bomb American cities.
  - ryanlol 11y ago
    >Trolling is not encouraging terrorists to bomb American cities. Really depends on if he would have alerted LE or not, which we can't know as he was arrested so early on. (Which TBH, considering the FBIs formidable surveillance capabilities seems a little sketchy.) Obviously, if such an attack actually went through he'd be no better than the attackers themselves.
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
      > Really depends on if he would have alerted LE or not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment
mirimir 11y ago
> When Potaka and Thorne compared notes, they discovered that their respective Facebook impostors only had one friend: Joshua Goldberg. Seriously? He could have been that stupid? While posing as an ISIS supporter?
- justinjlynn 11y ago
  All OpSec failures have a propensity to look rather stupid in retrospect -- though this is a particularly egregious example of contamination.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  Misanthropic 20-year-olds aren't noted for being good planners.
- Nutmog 11y ago
  Presumably the two fake accounts had many friends but Joshua was the only common one that both Potaka and Thorne saw. Still quite a silly mistake, but not quite as bad as the fake accounts both having only one friend - the real Joshua.
mattmanser 11y ago
You can bet the FBI have added this to their list of 'foiled' attacks, even though there was never any chance of anything happening. I bet your president was briefed of an imminent attack on Kansas as if it was about to happen too.
ryanlol 11y ago
I have to admit I haven't had time to pull up the case on PACER yet, but it seems to be like the FBIs actions might have been a little too hasty here. Based on what I've read so far, it seems like the FBIs actions might have been a bit too hasty here. I believe that instead of arresting this person, they should have placed him under heavy surveillance and then attempted to first deduce if he in fact intended to alert LE to the attack or not. Arresting him several days before the supposed attack was supposed to happen took away his chance to essentially absolve himself by reporting the planned "attacks" to law enforcement and therefore exposing a domestic terrorist (cell).
- tptacek 11y ago
  When you read accounts of what happened here, try to remember that the "confidential informant" the FBI used has pretty much exactly one task: to get the suspect to say exactly the set of things they need to say to make a solid case. The clock wasn't ticking here. The FBI had on its side the element of surprise, the initiative, and the clock. They got to wait until their CI did its job. Presumably, if this person is indicted, it's going to be pretty bad.
ikeboy 11y ago
Earlier HN discussion when he was first arrested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10211693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10211693

30 points by temp 11y ago

>His psychiatric evaluation, released through a Freedom of Information Act request filed by several news organizations, describes him as suffering from “grandiosity” and “delusions of persecution.” That describes every troll in the entire Internet.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
I dunno, some of 'em are just assholes.
- a_bonobo 11y ago
  This paper made the rounds a few years back: >Both studies revealed similar patterns of relations between trolling and the Dark Tetrad of personality: trolling correlated positively with sadism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism, using both enjoyment ratings and identity scores. Of all personality measures, sadism showed the most robust associations with trolling and, importantly, the relationship was specific to trolling behavior. Enjoyment of other online activities, such as chatting and debating, was unrelated to sadism. Thus cyber-trolling appears to be an Internet manifestation of everyday sadism. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886914000324 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886914... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7241233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7241233
contingencies 11y ago
I'm not so sure it's very different offline.
GunboatDiplomat 11y ago
Wait, how are we defining trolling? I'd say this kid went above and beyond what would be "trolling." Trolling is trying to get a rise out of people on a discussion board or twitter or similar. Trolling is not encouraging terrorists to bomb American cities.
- ryanlol 11y ago
  >Trolling is not encouraging terrorists to bomb American cities. Really depends on if he would have alerted LE or not, which we can't know as he was arrested so early on. (Which TBH, considering the FBIs formidable surveillance capabilities seems a little sketchy.) Obviously, if such an attack actually went through he'd be no better than the attackers themselves.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
    > Really depends on if he would have alerted LE or not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

mirimir 11y ago

> When Potaka and Thorne compared notes, they discovered that their respective Facebook impostors only had one friend: Joshua Goldberg. Seriously? He could have been that stupid? While posing as an ISIS supporter?

justinjlynn 11y ago
All OpSec failures have a propensity to look rather stupid in retrospect -- though this is a particularly egregious example of contamination.
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
Misanthropic 20-year-olds aren't noted for being good planners.
Nutmog 11y ago
Presumably the two fake accounts had many friends but Joshua was the only common one that both Potaka and Thorne saw. Still quite a silly mistake, but not quite as bad as the fake accounts both having only one friend - the real Joshua.

mattmanser 11y ago

You can bet the FBI have added this to their list of 'foiled' attacks, even though there was never any chance of anything happening. I bet your president was briefed of an imminent attack on Kansas as if it was about to happen too.

ryanlol 11y ago

I have to admit I haven't had time to pull up the case on PACER yet, but it seems to be like the FBIs actions might have been a little too hasty here. Based on what I've read so far, it seems like the FBIs actions might have been a bit too hasty here. I believe that instead of arresting this person, they should have placed him under heavy surveillance and then attempted to first deduce if he in fact intended to alert LE to the attack or not. Arresting him several days before the supposed attack was supposed to happen took away his chance to essentially absolve himself by reporting the planned "attacks" to law enforcement and therefore exposing a domestic terrorist (cell).

tptacek 11y ago
When you read accounts of what happened here, try to remember that the "confidential informant" the FBI used has pretty much exactly one task: to get the suspect to say exactly the set of things they need to say to make a solid case. The clock wasn't ticking here. The FBI had on its side the element of surprise, the initiative, and the clock. They got to wait until their CI did its job. Presumably, if this person is indicted, it's going to be pretty bad.

ikeboy 11y ago

Earlier HN discussion when he was first arrested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10211693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10211693