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>That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say culture matters. You'd probably hate being on my team and I'd probably hate being on yours, even if we are bot

>That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say culture matters. You'd probably hate being on my team and I'd probably hate being on yours, even if we are both highly competent devs. This shouldn't be a matter of team culture. Socially mature people should be able to adapt their communication to different people's personalities without any difficulty. There's no reason you can't say "Hey Fred, your foo implementation sucks." in one breath, and "Hey Bob, this bar implementation might be a bit better if you looked into baz." in the next. And I'm not sure why you find the latter so unpleasant.

yummyfajitas 11y ago
There is also no reason why Bob can't adapt his communication to whoever is saying "your foo implementation sucks". Culture is a set of prevailing norms about which group of people are the ones who should adapt. In some cultures it's Fred who adapts, in others it's Bob. Let me emphasize that I'm not advocating that one culture is superior. Bridgewater is a highly successful "you suck here's why" culture, Shutterstock is a highly successful "lets all think about feelings" culture (to name two NY companies known for culture), and I don't think either would be improved by making them more like the other. I'd just be far more willing to work at Bridgewater (at least if they opened a NYC office - who wants to go to CT) than at Shutterstock. And I'm not sure why you find the latter so unpleasant. I find it to be an exercise which saps my mental energy and distracts me from increasing shareholder value. The less I think about feelings, the more I'm thinking about getting more sales for my customers. I'm not sure why some people find open office plans so unpleasant. But I accept that some people really don't like them and I have no problem if companies choose private offices to appeal to those people.
- aninhumer 11y ago
  > There is also no reason why Bob can't adapt his communication to whoever is saying "your foo implementation sucks". Except that it's a lot easier to not say "your work sucks" than it is to not feel upset when someone does. And most people will indeed adapt over time, so it's a pretty silly reason not to hire someone. >I find it to be an exercise which saps my mental energy and distracts me from increasing shareholder value. The thing is, I don't feel like I need to actively think about people's feelings to not say "this sucks". I just do it naturally in response to different social contexts.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    It's easier for you. For me the reverse is true. One reason to avoid hiring people who don't fit the culture is to avoid entryism. If a group allows just anyone to enter, the newcomers may gain power and destroy the original culture. This is particularly true if a culture is significantly outside the norm. For example, witness Github's transformation from flat hierarchy and meritocracy to traditional corporate hierarchical politics: http://danieltenner.com/2016/02/06/github-the-quiet-death-of-one-mans-dream/ http://danieltenner.com/2016/02/06/github-the-quiet-death-of... The thing is, I don't feel like I need to actively think about people's feelings to not say "this sucks". I just do it naturally in response to different social contexts. I don't need to actively suppress negative feelings when people give me factual feedback. It just happens naturally. People are different. If I'm interpreting your posts right, it sounds like you feel your personality profile should be privileged over others and that all organizations should adapt to suit you (leaving me unable to find a place that suits me). Perhaps I'm wildly misreading you and interpreting differences in mood affiliation for differences in beliefs? Could you clarify what you are advocating for?
    - aninhumer 11y ago
      >It's easier for you. For me the reverse is true. What I mean is it's easier for you not to say "sucks" than it is for them not to feel upset. Speech is active, but emotions are passive. >I don't need to actively suppress negative feelings when people give me factual feedback. I have no problem with merely "factual" feedback. What you're talking about goes beyond the facts to put a negative and personal spin on it. Moreover, it suppresses the actual facts ("this SQL is bad because...") in favour of that negativity. >If I'm interpreting your posts right, it sounds like you feel your personality profile should be privileged over others and that all organizations should adapt to suit you I think the personality trait of "upset by strongly worded negative language" is incredibly common, so being able to communicate with people who share it is part of basic social literacy. To me, your saying it's too much effort sounds like those people who say using correct spelling and grammar is too much effort. If you can't do it without thinking, you should learn, because it's a widely applicable skill.
- tommorris 11y ago
  > I'm not sure why some people find open office plans so unpleasant. Funnily enough, I recently outlined the reasons here (applicable specifically to those with hearing loss as well as everybody else), with reference to a whole range of scientific studies. https://tommorris.org/posts/9403 https://tommorris.org/posts/9403

yummyfajitas 11y ago

There is also no reason why Bob can't adapt his communication to whoever is saying "your foo implementation sucks". Culture is a set of prevailing norms about which group of people are the ones who should adapt. In some cultures it's Fred who adapts, in others it's Bob. Let me emphasize that I'm not advocating that one culture is superior. Bridgewater is a highly successful "you suck here's why" culture, Shutterstock is a highly successful "lets all think about feelings" culture (to name two NY companies known for culture), and I don't think either would be improved by making them more like the other. I'd just be far more willing to work at Bridgewater (at least if they opened a NYC office - who wants to go to CT) than at Shutterstock. And I'm not sure why you find the latter so unpleasant. I find it to be an exercise which saps my mental energy and distracts me from increasing shareholder value. The less I think about feelings, the more I'm thinking about getting more sales for my customers. I'm not sure why some people find open office plans so unpleasant. But I accept that some people really don't like them and I have no problem if companies choose private offices to appeal to those people.

aninhumer 11y ago
> There is also no reason why Bob can't adapt his communication to whoever is saying "your foo implementation sucks". Except that it's a lot easier to not say "your work sucks" than it is to not feel upset when someone does. And most people will indeed adapt over time, so it's a pretty silly reason not to hire someone. >I find it to be an exercise which saps my mental energy and distracts me from increasing shareholder value. The thing is, I don't feel like I need to actively think about people's feelings to not say "this sucks". I just do it naturally in response to different social contexts.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  It's easier for you. For me the reverse is true. One reason to avoid hiring people who don't fit the culture is to avoid entryism. If a group allows just anyone to enter, the newcomers may gain power and destroy the original culture. This is particularly true if a culture is significantly outside the norm. For example, witness Github's transformation from flat hierarchy and meritocracy to traditional corporate hierarchical politics: http://danieltenner.com/2016/02/06/github-the-quiet-death-of-one-mans-dream/ http://danieltenner.com/2016/02/06/github-the-quiet-death-of... The thing is, I don't feel like I need to actively think about people's feelings to not say "this sucks". I just do it naturally in response to different social contexts. I don't need to actively suppress negative feelings when people give me factual feedback. It just happens naturally. People are different. If I'm interpreting your posts right, it sounds like you feel your personality profile should be privileged over others and that all organizations should adapt to suit you (leaving me unable to find a place that suits me). Perhaps I'm wildly misreading you and interpreting differences in mood affiliation for differences in beliefs? Could you clarify what you are advocating for?
  - aninhumer 11y ago
    >It's easier for you. For me the reverse is true. What I mean is it's easier for you not to say "sucks" than it is for them not to feel upset. Speech is active, but emotions are passive. >I don't need to actively suppress negative feelings when people give me factual feedback. I have no problem with merely "factual" feedback. What you're talking about goes beyond the facts to put a negative and personal spin on it. Moreover, it suppresses the actual facts ("this SQL is bad because...") in favour of that negativity. >If I'm interpreting your posts right, it sounds like you feel your personality profile should be privileged over others and that all organizations should adapt to suit you I think the personality trait of "upset by strongly worded negative language" is incredibly common, so being able to communicate with people who share it is part of basic social literacy. To me, your saying it's too much effort sounds like those people who say using correct spelling and grammar is too much effort. If you can't do it without thinking, you should learn, because it's a widely applicable skill.
tommorris 11y ago
> I'm not sure why some people find open office plans so unpleasant. Funnily enough, I recently outlined the reasons here (applicable specifically to those with hearing loss as well as everybody else), with reference to a whole range of scientific studies. https://tommorris.org/posts/9403 https://tommorris.org/posts/9403