4 ms·

I work with a guy who has cddl'd his project . He likes the license ; I don't nag him to change it to an isc license . He has his reasons for the cddl, I might

I work with a guy who has cddl'd his project . He likes the license ; I don't nag him to change it to an isc license . He has his reasons for the cddl, I might not agree with all of it but I am great full he open sourced it . If sun /oracle didn't open source zfs or dtrace we would be all be using Solaris and paying to use it . So if FreeBSD , NetBSD , illumos have a properly compatable licenses for zfs . Embrace that ; if you don't want to, check out dragonflybsd and hammerfs, look at btree on Linux , check out openbfs on haiku . I can't stress this enough Canonical is a shitty company who needs to make waves to stay relevant . I don't know why anyone uses their crap . Wait I remember they are a commercial company with a marketing department who gets paid to polish that turd . What was so bad about Debian ? If you don't like Debian Why not give a a bsd a try . Hell why not just try Smart os and a lx-branded zone . You get zfs , dtrace , and all of the ful of full Linux comparability .

akulbe 11y ago
Why do you say that about Canonical?
lomnakkus 11y ago
> He has his reasons for the cddl, What are those reasons, concretely? Would he be better served by choosing e.g. a BSD variant? There's a non-trivial cost to choosing a "not-completely-understood" license. Or, equivalently, there's value in choosing a well-known "standard" license. While the CDDL should probably be classified as "well-known" at this point, its interaction with other licenses isn't, and -- unless you're actively working against GPL-ish licenses -- it's to be avoided. You can get what what you want by chosing a BSD-esque license instead. I think I agree with many of your other points, though. As I say, I'm not a lawyer and not overly fond of licensing in the first place. (Still doesn't mean you can ignore this concern, unfortunately! If only ignorance of the law were an excuse!) EDIT: If you're going to downvote, please explain. I don't care about the numbers, but I would like to know why my argument is wrong/misguided.
- cyphar 11y ago
  CDDL has nice properties. And really it's just an improvement on the MPL 1.0. There are good reasons to choose the CDDL (it's a file-based not work-based copyleft so the implications with stuff like linking are clear). It just really bothers me that we have licenses which restrict you from combining two works to create a new works that provides more guarantees of freedom than one of them. It's frustrating that by creating free software we now have different factions because we can't use other's free software.
vacri 11y ago
How quickly we forget that Ubuntu tries to make things as user-friendly as possible. Debian does a decent job, but it's still rough around the edges in the desktop world. The BSDs aren't exactly friendly for non-techies either. Frankly, you're an elitist, who doesn't care about the use-cases of anyone but technical experts. For most users, the type of filesystem in use does not matter, nor does access to dtrace.
- shiftoutbox 11y ago
  Ha I am an elitist , your too funny; scroll back we are talking about zfs on hacker news; and I made a comment about how I dislike the work of canonical. To the point of making things user friendly; go get an Mac or Windows computer . Compare them to An Ubuntu install . Which is more user friendly? Is it Windows with its start menu and wizards , it's it OS X with its cool style and must have stuff , or is it Ubuntu with its polish of X11 and gnome . I don't know but my personal would probably say it's none of them .
  - vacri 11y ago
    Ah, I see. "X is a shitty company that needs to make waves to stay relevant" was a comment limited to merely the filesystem debate. Then, when it comes to user-friendliness, you abandon the bsds and other linux distros that you were talking about, shifting your goalposts neatly. But it does show your elitism again: user-friendliness should apparently stay away from the FOSS distros and remain the domain of windows/osx. You were slagging off ubuntu and saying you don't know why people use their shit. I gave you a reason - in fact, ubuntu was responsible for a huge groundswell of interest in open source almost a decade ago, because of that user-friendly focus. That's a core part of why people use their stuff.
sangnoir 11y ago
The following answers were particularly applicable at the time Ubuntu came onto the scene. > What was so bad about Debian ? 1) Unpredictable upgrade cycles. 2)Packages in stable were a bit on the ancient side. Ubuntu LTS is awesome (other projects like Firefox have since copied the fixed release cycle) > If you don't like Debian Why not give a a bsd a try Because BSD had (has?) poorer driver support for consumer products (like on my dev laptop) I don't care much for Canonical and some of their other projects (Unity desktop, Ubuntu One), but Ubuntu as a project is pretty kick-ass. Ubuntu stepped into desktop linux in a big way as other Linux vendors abandoned ship (see RHEL)

akulbe 11y ago

Why do you say that about Canonical?

lomnakkus 11y ago

> He has his reasons for the cddl, What are those reasons, concretely? Would he be better served by choosing e.g. a BSD variant? There's a non-trivial cost to choosing a "not-completely-understood" license. Or, equivalently, there's value in choosing a well-known "standard" license. While the CDDL should probably be classified as "well-known" at this point, its interaction with other licenses isn't, and -- unless you're actively working against GPL-ish licenses -- it's to be avoided. You can get what what you want by chosing a BSD-esque license instead. I think I agree with many of your other points, though. As I say, I'm not a lawyer and not overly fond of licensing in the first place. (Still doesn't mean you can ignore this concern, unfortunately! If only ignorance of the law were an excuse!) EDIT: If you're going to downvote, please explain. I don't care about the numbers, but I would like to know why my argument is wrong/misguided.

cyphar 11y ago
CDDL has nice properties. And really it's just an improvement on the MPL 1.0. There are good reasons to choose the CDDL (it's a file-based not work-based copyleft so the implications with stuff like linking are clear). It just really bothers me that we have licenses which restrict you from combining two works to create a new works that provides more guarantees of freedom than one of them. It's frustrating that by creating free software we now have different factions because we can't use other's free software.

vacri 11y ago

How quickly we forget that Ubuntu tries to make things as user-friendly as possible. Debian does a decent job, but it's still rough around the edges in the desktop world. The BSDs aren't exactly friendly for non-techies either. Frankly, you're an elitist, who doesn't care about the use-cases of anyone but technical experts. For most users, the type of filesystem in use does not matter, nor does access to dtrace.

shiftoutbox 11y ago
Ha I am an elitist , your too funny; scroll back we are talking about zfs on hacker news; and I made a comment about how I dislike the work of canonical. To the point of making things user friendly; go get an Mac or Windows computer . Compare them to An Ubuntu install . Which is more user friendly? Is it Windows with its start menu and wizards , it's it OS X with its cool style and must have stuff , or is it Ubuntu with its polish of X11 and gnome . I don't know but my personal would probably say it's none of them .
- vacri 11y ago
  Ah, I see. "X is a shitty company that needs to make waves to stay relevant" was a comment limited to merely the filesystem debate. Then, when it comes to user-friendliness, you abandon the bsds and other linux distros that you were talking about, shifting your goalposts neatly. But it does show your elitism again: user-friendliness should apparently stay away from the FOSS distros and remain the domain of windows/osx. You were slagging off ubuntu and saying you don't know why people use their shit. I gave you a reason - in fact, ubuntu was responsible for a huge groundswell of interest in open source almost a decade ago, because of that user-friendly focus. That's a core part of why people use their stuff.

sangnoir 11y ago

The following answers were particularly applicable at the time Ubuntu came onto the scene. > What was so bad about Debian ? 1) Unpredictable upgrade cycles. 2)Packages in stable were a bit on the ancient side. Ubuntu LTS is awesome (other projects like Firefox have since copied the fixed release cycle) > If you don't like Debian Why not give a a bsd a try Because BSD had (has?) poorer driver support for consumer products (like on my dev laptop) I don't care much for Canonical and some of their other projects (Unity desktop, Ubuntu One), but Ubuntu as a project is pretty kick-ass. Ubuntu stepped into desktop linux in a big way as other Linux vendors abandoned ship (see RHEL)