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>Japan is an old nation Japan as a unified nation in the modern sense is newer than the United States of America. Prior to the Meiji Restoration in the 1860s J

>Japan is an old nation Japan as a unified nation in the modern sense is newer than the United States of America. Prior to the Meiji Restoration in the 1860s Japan was a feudal society lead by warlords. The rule under the Tokugawa shogunate was relatively stable, but it was still a feudal society. I don't think anyone is claiming Japan will cease to exist as a country and that the Japanese people would die out, but something with as radical a change as the Restoration (Which included multiple civil wars...) would probably not count as the nation just correcting itself. It is the effective death of one form of the nation and the birth of the other.

threeseed 11y ago
I always find it hilarious when people visit Japan, look at the shrines and think that it belongs to a really old era. When in fact it was during the Meiji period (after Australia was founded) that these were erected.
jessaustin 11y ago
Haha I guess it isn't a surprise when some Americans make true-Scotsman claims like this. They shouldn't be jealous of other nations' extensive histories, rather they should enjoy those histories. When the shogunate emerged in Japan to govern in place of the abdicating, distracted Heian imperial court, USA was populated by various neolithic tribes. Akihito is a direct descendant of the emperors who ruled then, and speaks the same language in his court that they did. I haven't heard much pre-Columbian Algonquin spoken in the White House. Civil wars don't switch to a different "civilization". (The one in USA didn't, did it?) Japan's remarkable post-WWII recovery from the devastation of war and poor governance in the 1940s to economic success in the 1960s-80s (which IMHO is more impressive than the Meiji restoration to which you refer) is compared by Japanese themselves to earlier recoveries such as that during the early Edo period. The culture, language, and society that exists in Japan today descends directly from those that accomplished previous impressive transitions.
- cthalupa 11y ago
  Is there a fallacy related to crying fallacious argument when there isn't one? If so, I suppose I should pull that card right now... It's hardly jealousy. And you're arguing against claims I didn't make - I never said a civil war changes civilization in and of itself. But we're talking about a period where the way the country had been ruled for hundred of years completely changed, with huge amounts of turmoil, lots of bloodshed, and came out on the other site vastly changed. To try to compare it to the US Civil War, where in comparison things were static (As far as the governance of any nation remains static) when it comes government reform, is silly. The US punished the South, but the federal government behaved much as it had before. In comparison, the Meiji restoration ended centuries of feudal society.

threeseed 11y ago

I always find it hilarious when people visit Japan, look at the shrines and think that it belongs to a really old era. When in fact it was during the Meiji period (after Australia was founded) that these were erected.

jessaustin 11y ago

Haha I guess it isn't a surprise when some Americans make true-Scotsman claims like this. They shouldn't be jealous of other nations' extensive histories, rather they should enjoy those histories. When the shogunate emerged in Japan to govern in place of the abdicating, distracted Heian imperial court, USA was populated by various neolithic tribes. Akihito is a direct descendant of the emperors who ruled then, and speaks the same language in his court that they did. I haven't heard much pre-Columbian Algonquin spoken in the White House. Civil wars don't switch to a different "civilization". (The one in USA didn't, did it?) Japan's remarkable post-WWII recovery from the devastation of war and poor governance in the 1940s to economic success in the 1960s-80s (which IMHO is more impressive than the Meiji restoration to which you refer) is compared by Japanese themselves to earlier recoveries such as that during the early Edo period. The culture, language, and society that exists in Japan today descends directly from those that accomplished previous impressive transitions.

cthalupa 11y ago
Is there a fallacy related to crying fallacious argument when there isn't one? If so, I suppose I should pull that card right now... It's hardly jealousy. And you're arguing against claims I didn't make - I never said a civil war changes civilization in and of itself. But we're talking about a period where the way the country had been ruled for hundred of years completely changed, with huge amounts of turmoil, lots of bloodshed, and came out on the other site vastly changed. To try to compare it to the US Civil War, where in comparison things were static (As far as the governance of any nation remains static) when it comes government reform, is silly. The US punished the South, but the federal government behaved much as it had before. In comparison, the Meiji restoration ended centuries of feudal society.