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I suggest looking at the official data on this subject[1]. The vast majority of San Francisco's homeless people are, in fact, people who were living in SF and p

I suggest looking at the official data on this subject[1]. The vast majority of San Francisco's homeless people are, in fact, people who were living in SF and paying rent, lost one or more jobs, and subsequently became homeless. I would also suggest you read the literature[2] concerning "putting people in a mental institution" against their will, because that practice has a long and sordid history and there are many, many good reasons we don't do it anymore. [1]https://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/sfgov.org.lhcb/files/2015%20San%20Francisco%20Homeless%20Count%20%20Report_0.pdf https://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/sfgov.org.lhcb/files/2015%20San... [2]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3392176/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3392176/

hencq 11y ago
Thanks for sharing those links. I'll definitely look into them in more detail. At a cursory glance I'm not sure that the data necessarily contradicts 1024core's statement. A disturbingly high number of respondents cites having one or more health conditions, such as Drug or Alcohol Abuse (37%), Pyschiatric or Emotional Conditions (35%) and PTSD (27%). At the same time, to your point, the number of people on the streets due to evictions has also markedly increased over the last years, so there are probably multiple things going on. I'd imagine that (as usual) the problems are complex. For instance, respondents say they're on the street because they lost their job (25%) or because family or friends asked them to leave (12%), but it doesn't mention if there's an underlying reason for that. For example, some of these people might have lost their job due to substance abuse. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, just trying to say that the situation is complex. Similarly I'd imagine there's a vicious cycle where once you're living on the street it's difficult to break out of it. Living on the street makes it difficult to get a job, which in turn makes it hard to get a home. Substance abuse is probably more likely if you're living on the street, again making it more difficult to get a job and a home. If you have a mental illness and you voluntarily sought mental care, it's difficult to stick with it if you also have a drug addiction. Again, thanks for posting those links. I also live in SF and I find the homeless situation tragic. It saddens me that very few people seem interested in discussing the problem beyond black and white opinions and simple soundbites.
1024core 11y ago
> The vast majority of San Francisco's homeless people are, in fact, people who were living in SF and paying rent, lost one or more jobs, and subsequently became homeless. Look closely. 70% claim to be so ... but only ~30% were actually paying rent. That's 21%, certainly not the vast majority. Also: if you got kicked out of a shelter, it counts as having been "living" in SF. :-) Plus, this was a self-reported survey. Homeless people will often lie to get your sympathy. Case in point: the whole "I need to buy food" spiel. Most of the time that I have offered to do so, they hum and haw and ignore my offer. Some in fact take the food and throw it away. Very rarely do they actually eat the food. The point is: if the homeless think they can get more sympathy by claiming to be lifelong residents of SF, many will claim to be so.
pjlegato 11y ago
Leaving people with severe mental illnesses who cannot take care of themselves in any sense to rot on the streets and fend for themselves is far more sordid (and has a far longer history.)
- beatpanda 11y ago
  I agree, but that still doesn't make involuntary commitment a good idea
  - 13thLetter 11y ago
    What's your third way solution, then?

hencq 11y ago

Thanks for sharing those links. I'll definitely look into them in more detail. At a cursory glance I'm not sure that the data necessarily contradicts 1024core's statement. A disturbingly high number of respondents cites having one or more health conditions, such as Drug or Alcohol Abuse (37%), Pyschiatric or Emotional Conditions (35%) and PTSD (27%). At the same time, to your point, the number of people on the streets due to evictions has also markedly increased over the last years, so there are probably multiple things going on. I'd imagine that (as usual) the problems are complex. For instance, respondents say they're on the street because they lost their job (25%) or because family or friends asked them to leave (12%), but it doesn't mention if there's an underlying reason for that. For example, some of these people might have lost their job due to substance abuse. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, just trying to say that the situation is complex. Similarly I'd imagine there's a vicious cycle where once you're living on the street it's difficult to break out of it. Living on the street makes it difficult to get a job, which in turn makes it hard to get a home. Substance abuse is probably more likely if you're living on the street, again making it more difficult to get a job and a home. If you have a mental illness and you voluntarily sought mental care, it's difficult to stick with it if you also have a drug addiction. Again, thanks for posting those links. I also live in SF and I find the homeless situation tragic. It saddens me that very few people seem interested in discussing the problem beyond black and white opinions and simple soundbites.

1024core 11y ago

> The vast majority of San Francisco's homeless people are, in fact, people who were living in SF and paying rent, lost one or more jobs, and subsequently became homeless. Look closely. 70% claim to be so ... but only ~30% were actually paying rent. That's 21%, certainly not the vast majority. Also: if you got kicked out of a shelter, it counts as having been "living" in SF. :-) Plus, this was a self-reported survey. Homeless people will often lie to get your sympathy. Case in point: the whole "I need to buy food" spiel. Most of the time that I have offered to do so, they hum and haw and ignore my offer. Some in fact take the food and throw it away. Very rarely do they actually eat the food. The point is: if the homeless think they can get more sympathy by claiming to be lifelong residents of SF, many will claim to be so.

pjlegato 11y ago

Leaving people with severe mental illnesses who cannot take care of themselves in any sense to rot on the streets and fend for themselves is far more sordid (and has a far longer history.)

beatpanda 11y ago
I agree, but that still doesn't make involuntary commitment a good idea
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  What's your third way solution, then?