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Though I really shouldn't care, I admit it kinda turned me off when I saw the prominent code of conduct. I don't think they are needed (you can ban a troublema

Though I really shouldn't care, I admit it kinda turned me off when I saw the prominent code of conduct. I don't think they are needed (you can ban a troublemaker without a document) and I don't think they are effective (never met a bully that cared if a piece of paper said "be nice"). But mostly, seeing these codes pop up everywhere bothers me because I like to think of hobby software as one of the last realms on earth where you can have a meritocracy without the politically correct nonsense that eats at your soul the rest of the day. I feel like the open source community is starting to get tainted, somehow, and I hope in time there's a strong reaction the other way.

glenda 11y ago
I agree that political correctness should not be the focus of a technical discussion, and like-wise there shouldn't be anything remotely offensive in those kinds of discussions either. Just as political correctness eats away at your soul, racism/sexism/etc... do too. You're free to run your own projects however you want; the maintainer of Oden obviously doesn't want to work with people who require the freedom to be offensive in public forums. If that offends you then don't work on it.
- throw12111 11y ago
  It's more nuanced than that: Many people have no intention of being offensive but don't want to be regulated either. CoC projects often attract the worst politicians who are just acceptably polite on the surface but absolutely cold and ruthless in their actions. Ironically, these people also often tend to blog about politeness in OSS.
  - ryan_lane 11y ago
    No one is forcing you to work on the project. If you think this is how CoC works, then stop working on projects that add them. The rest of us will work on whatever projects we want and hopefully every piece of crap will decide they don't want to work on any of the projects because they're offended by CoCs.
- lliamander 11y ago
  > the maintainer of Oden obviously doesn't want to work with people who require the freedom to be offensive in public forums. I'm sure that is the intent, but they make the code of conduct explicitly (and I would say somewhat aggressively) political. I think that it will deter a number of otherwise respectful and conscientious people. In any case, I am glad that they are publishing a code of conduct. I don't like the content of the particular CoC they chose, but at least I know where they stand. As for the project itself, it looks really cool. It seems to be addressing the kind of concerns that keep people like myself from engaging in the Go ecosystem.
untog 11y ago
I like to think of hobby software as one of the last realms on earth where you can have a meritocracy I like to think that, but I'm really not convinced that it's true.
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  Can you expand upon that?
vertex-four 11y ago
There's already a very strong reaction the other way - every time a project with a CoC is posted here or anywhere else, it's pointed out with plenty of people agreeing that it's awful and a blight on society. The PHP community has people outright angry about its attempt at passing even an extremely watered-down CoC which essentially says "as long as you don't explicitly say 'on behalf of the PHP project, we all hate your guts, <insert slur here>', it's fine". And yet every time a project without a CoC is posted, nobody says a word - that's the default, that's what's expected.
goldbrick 11y ago
I agree with you that the code of conduct initially felt a bit eh -- but the thing is, can you really ban a troublemaker without a standard? Otherwise you start a whole drama war and leadership gets accused of playing favorites and it's just a clusterfuck nobody wants. While it would be equally as nice to pretend everybody could just be fucking polite human beings as to pretend a true "meritocracy" could exist, that's just not reality.

glenda 11y ago

I agree that political correctness should not be the focus of a technical discussion, and like-wise there shouldn't be anything remotely offensive in those kinds of discussions either. Just as political correctness eats away at your soul, racism/sexism/etc... do too. You're free to run your own projects however you want; the maintainer of Oden obviously doesn't want to work with people who require the freedom to be offensive in public forums. If that offends you then don't work on it.

throw12111 11y ago
It's more nuanced than that: Many people have no intention of being offensive but don't want to be regulated either. CoC projects often attract the worst politicians who are just acceptably polite on the surface but absolutely cold and ruthless in their actions. Ironically, these people also often tend to blog about politeness in OSS.
- ryan_lane 11y ago
  No one is forcing you to work on the project. If you think this is how CoC works, then stop working on projects that add them. The rest of us will work on whatever projects we want and hopefully every piece of crap will decide they don't want to work on any of the projects because they're offended by CoCs.
lliamander 11y ago
> the maintainer of Oden obviously doesn't want to work with people who require the freedom to be offensive in public forums. I'm sure that is the intent, but they make the code of conduct explicitly (and I would say somewhat aggressively) political. I think that it will deter a number of otherwise respectful and conscientious people. In any case, I am glad that they are publishing a code of conduct. I don't like the content of the particular CoC they chose, but at least I know where they stand. As for the project itself, it looks really cool. It seems to be addressing the kind of concerns that keep people like myself from engaging in the Go ecosystem.

untog 11y ago

I like to think of hobby software as one of the last realms on earth where you can have a meritocracy I like to think that, but I'm really not convinced that it's true.

oldmanjay 11y ago
Can you expand upon that?

vertex-four 11y ago

There's already a very strong reaction the other way - every time a project with a CoC is posted here or anywhere else, it's pointed out with plenty of people agreeing that it's awful and a blight on society. The PHP community has people outright angry about its attempt at passing even an extremely watered-down CoC which essentially says "as long as you don't explicitly say 'on behalf of the PHP project, we all hate your guts, <insert slur here>', it's fine". And yet every time a project without a CoC is posted, nobody says a word - that's the default, that's what's expected.

goldbrick 11y ago

I agree with you that the code of conduct initially felt a bit eh -- but the thing is, can you really ban a troublemaker without a standard? Otherwise you start a whole drama war and leadership gets accused of playing favorites and it's just a clusterfuck nobody wants. While it would be equally as nice to pretend everybody could just be fucking polite human beings as to pretend a true "meritocracy" could exist, that's just not reality.