4 ms·

Occam's razor. Is there a problem in our entire society and schooling system, or are Black and Hispanic backgrounds a liability because of the views and attitud

Occam's razor. Is there a problem in our entire society and schooling system, or are Black and Hispanic backgrounds a liability because of the views and attitudes they have/teach?

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Occam's razor. Is there likely to be numerous smaller problems that are easy to ignore in all different areas of life, or few large easy to spot problems in one area of life?
whitegrape 11y ago
There's an even simpler explanation you get when you control for upbringing. But instead we prefer Occam's Butterknife to the razor. (https://polymathblogger.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/occams-butterknife/ https://polymathblogger.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/occams-butt...)
abrahamepton 11y ago
Having lived in our society and been educated by our schools: Yeah, there are societal problems and educational problems. Big, big, big problems. Having gotten my ass kicked intellectually repeatedly by black and hispanic students: no, those backgrounds are not a liability.
- whitegrape 11y ago
  An average IQ one std dev below other groups does not preclude the existence of individuals who have an IQ two std devs above an average member of the other group. https://antidem.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/glantons-law/ https://antidem.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/glantons-law/
zephharben 11y ago
You nailed it - there is a problem in our entire society and schooling system.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Is there a problem in our entire society and schooling system, or are Black and Hispanic backgrounds a liability because of the views and attitudes they have/teach? The two are not mutually exclusive. I would argue that a very significant part of the problem that Blacks and Hispanics face (besides simple discrimination on the part of people in positions of power -- which is very real, as studies of responses to applications in various context from people with stereotypically Black or Hispanic names vs. otherwise identical applications without that feature) is attitudes toward societal institutions and mainstream culture in their respective subcultures that are a direct product of problems in the broader society (including the schooling system), both currently and over the past several centuries (the longer time especially for black subculture) including, over much of that time, overt de jure subjugation and exclusion (which while it didn't directly impact young people today, is recent enough that lots of them have living relatives who did directly experience it) followed by covert (but still present, see earlier comment about applications) discrimination and neglect. Arguing over whether A or B is the problem is pointless when A causes B which then contributes back to A.

Occam's razor. Is there a problem in our entire society and schooling system, or are Black and Hispanic backgrounds a liability because of the views and attitudes they have/teach?

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

Occam's razor. Is there likely to be numerous smaller problems that are easy to ignore in all different areas of life, or few large easy to spot problems in one area of life?

whitegrape 11y ago

There's an even simpler explanation you get when you control for upbringing. But instead we prefer Occam's Butterknife to the razor. (https://polymathblogger.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/occams-butterknife/ https://polymathblogger.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/occams-butt...)

abrahamepton 11y ago

Having lived in our society and been educated by our schools: Yeah, there are societal problems and educational problems. Big, big, big problems. Having gotten my ass kicked intellectually repeatedly by black and hispanic students: no, those backgrounds are not a liability.

whitegrape 11y ago
An average IQ one std dev below other groups does not preclude the existence of individuals who have an IQ two std devs above an average member of the other group. https://antidem.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/glantons-law/ https://antidem.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/glantons-law/

zephharben 11y ago

You nailed it - there is a problem in our entire society and schooling system.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Is there a problem in our entire society and schooling system, or are Black and Hispanic backgrounds a liability because of the views and attitudes they have/teach? The two are not mutually exclusive. I would argue that a very significant part of the problem that Blacks and Hispanics face (besides simple discrimination on the part of people in positions of power -- which is very real, as studies of responses to applications in various context from people with stereotypically Black or Hispanic names vs. otherwise identical applications without that feature) is attitudes toward societal institutions and mainstream culture in their respective subcultures that are a direct product of problems in the broader society (including the schooling system), both currently and over the past several centuries (the longer time especially for black subculture) including, over much of that time, overt de jure subjugation and exclusion (which while it didn't directly impact young people today, is recent enough that lots of them have living relatives who did directly experience it) followed by covert (but still present, see earlier comment about applications) discrimination and neglect. Arguing over whether A or B is the problem is pointless when A causes B which then contributes back to A.