4 ms·

So is there any legal recourse against the public servant who violates the law, if the law itself provides no penalties? In short, if this isn't punished, why

by ipsin 11y ago

So is there any legal recourse against the public servant who violates the law, if the law itself provides no penalties? In short, if this isn't punished, why won't it happen repeatedly?

coldtea 11y ago
Abuses of law by those in power (including the power of making laws) are only punished after popular protests (and sometimes take full popular revolt). There's no reason it won't happen repeatedly. In fact it has been happening since at least Hoover's years...
valar_m 11y ago
The remedy for illegal search is that evidence obtained through the illegal search is excluded at the defendant's trial.[0] That's all you get. In short, if this isn't punished, why won't it happen repeatedly? It isn't punished, and it does happen repeatedly. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_rule
- Godel_unicode 11y ago
  At least in law enforcement, the punishment comes in the form of being turned over for promotion and ultimately fired for wrecking the States case. It takes longer for some, but not make your numbers for long enough and you're fired.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> So is there any legal recourse against the public servant who violates the law, if the law itself provides no penalties? (1) By definition, if the law provides no remedy, there is no legal recourse; (2) The law often provides remedies, either specific to the violation or more general, but there may be difficulties in securing them (e.g., many violations of people's rights are, in fact, crimes by government agents. However, prosecutors are unlikely to pursue such crimes, especially if they were in support of executive policy rather than a rogue -- with respect to the leadership -- agent. Many also would generally open up civil liability under generally-applicable principals of law, but public officers and the public entities they work for may be able to assert various forms of governmental immunity to such liability.) Ultimately, the remedies for bad behavior by government often must be political, rather than legal.
- ipsin 11y ago
  (1) By definition, if the law provides no remedy, there is no legal recourse; I meant the law mandating the requirement, not "all law". It's possible that there's another law dealing with the execution of duties, similar to "honest services fraud". I'm not saying that it exists, but I disagree that it's impossible by definition. I do take your second point, though.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > It's possible that there's another law dealing with the execution of duties, similar to "honest services fraud". I was taking that as a case of the law providing a remedy for the offense in question, as part of some more general provision, so I think that our disagreement here is mostly just semantics rather than substance.

by ipsin 11y ago

So is there any legal recourse against the public servant who violates the law, if the law itself provides no penalties? In short, if this isn't punished, why won't it happen repeatedly?

coldtea 11y ago

Abuses of law by those in power (including the power of making laws) are only punished after popular protests (and sometimes take full popular revolt). There's no reason it won't happen repeatedly. In fact it has been happening since at least Hoover's years...

valar_m 11y ago

The remedy for illegal search is that evidence obtained through the illegal search is excluded at the defendant's trial.[0] That's all you get. In short, if this isn't punished, why won't it happen repeatedly? It isn't punished, and it does happen repeatedly. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_rule

Godel_unicode 11y ago
At least in law enforcement, the punishment comes in the form of being turned over for promotion and ultimately fired for wrecking the States case. It takes longer for some, but not make your numbers for long enough and you're fired.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> So is there any legal recourse against the public servant who violates the law, if the law itself provides no penalties? (1) By definition, if the law provides no remedy, there is no legal recourse; (2) The law often provides remedies, either specific to the violation or more general, but there may be difficulties in securing them (e.g., many violations of people's rights are, in fact, crimes by government agents. However, prosecutors are unlikely to pursue such crimes, especially if they were in support of executive policy rather than a rogue -- with respect to the leadership -- agent. Many also would generally open up civil liability under generally-applicable principals of law, but public officers and the public entities they work for may be able to assert various forms of governmental immunity to such liability.) Ultimately, the remedies for bad behavior by government often must be political, rather than legal.

ipsin 11y ago
(1) By definition, if the law provides no remedy, there is no legal recourse; I meant the law mandating the requirement, not "all law". It's possible that there's another law dealing with the execution of duties, similar to "honest services fraud". I'm not saying that it exists, but I disagree that it's impossible by definition. I do take your second point, though.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > It's possible that there's another law dealing with the execution of duties, similar to "honest services fraud". I was taking that as a case of the law providing a remedy for the offense in question, as part of some more general provision, so I think that our disagreement here is mostly just semantics rather than substance.