3 ms·

what systemic problem though? I'm hearing systemic a lot and it's more often looking suspiciously like a way to create a ghost that can't be fought so let's th

what systemic problem though? I'm hearing systemic a lot and it's more often looking suspiciously like a way to create a ghost that can't be fought so let's throw more money at any and every program to make a show of it.

coldtea 11y ago
You know, the kind of systemic that kept them legally segregated until the sixties -- that is, their parents time, and de facto segregated until today. Or the kind of systemic that ensures their school districts are poorer and underfunded. Or the kind of systemic that ensures you take the middle of the road when a black guy in a hoodie walks towards you in the same sidewalk.
- mlkjr 11y ago
  Having grown up in the Birmingham, Alabama public education system I can tell you segregation never really ended. Sure there aren't signs designating black and white water fountains but just because something is not written on a sign or on the law books doesn't mean its not written in the consciousness of the people. The biggest reason for this in my opinion is the historical obfuscation. Sure, we kind of studied the Civil Rights movement but we never really learned about Dr. King's deeper message, only that he "had a dream", and then segregation ended and everything was "normal" after that. It wasn't until years after graduating that I began reading Dr. King's speeches that and the underlying causes of the racial divisions finally made sense, allowing me to let go of the anger I had held from bad experiences related to the racial animosity. http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentsentry/doc_address_at_the_conclusion_of_selma_march.1.html http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentse...
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  So you're blaming the 60s, 70s and 80s for kids who grew up in the 2000s and don't code now? Because I don't know a single person who is in the field of IT whose parents were in IT. Positions barely existed until the 90s. No one has yet explained why even segregation today in some part of the country is affecting ethnic groups NOT interested or apt in coding to the level of getting the jobs.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >So you're blaming the 60s, 70s and 80s for kids who grew up in the 2000s and don't code now? Those kids didn't develop in vitro in some abstract new environment. They had parents, grandparents, neighborhoods, school districts, schools, family fortune (or lack thereof) potential employers (themselves born in the 60' 60's and 80s) etc. Anybody who thinks those things don't affect the nurture, career and prospects of a young person, or that those things change in a few decades, are deluded. Usually the same people also fail to understand the notion of statistics, and think that outliers that beat the odds and rose to become successful entrepreneurs or whatever from such upbringings translate to "it's equally easy for whites and blacks to become successful, here, this kid proved it, but most blacks are just lazy". In other words people who don't understand that most white people play life in easy mode, where most blacks do not -- and point to some "hard mode" winners as if that means everything is equally easy for everybody. http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  Sure thing, so do me a favor, point to one of these under funded minority students - because from what I read, the dept of education figures point to more money per pupil spending on black and hispanice students vs white across the united states regionally and in total - http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2011/04/bg2548/bg2548_table1.ashx?w=400&h=729&as=1 http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2011/04/bg254... Now if you can refute the source, I think that's great because I have a hard time believing it myself given the common narrative. One argument might be that somehow the amounts of money given somehow are squandered other ways, but that doesn't discount the amount given, it would point to the system where it's squandered not the funding itself.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >Now if you can refute the source The source is meaningless. Visit some schools in typical white districts and in typical black districts and compare them. It's easy to have to spend more public money for poor districts since there's much more infrastructure work to be done, plus the students parents don't have enough to spend on their kids education in the first place.
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  You're actually saying there's something "systemic" that causes ME to behave a certain way when in the presense of a black guy in a hoodie? OKAY. Methinks you don't have a grasp of the word "systemic" Like I said before, you're throwing out ghosts that you can't fight against specifically, to reinforce a claim of what causes entire ethnicities to have interest and aptitude in coding and IT work.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >You're actually saying there's something "systemic" that causes ME to behave a certain way when in the presense of a black guy in a hoodie? OKAY. It was the general "use" I used (e.g. the phrase could be read "that ensure one takes the middle of the road"). So, even if not you, then hell of a lot of people. Did you think that people who act in that "certain way" are unique snowflakes, and that their behavior is a personal curiosity that doesn't have historical roots and cultural influences? >Like I said before, you're throwing out ghosts that you can't fight against specifically, to reinforce a claim of what causes entire ethnicities to have interest and aptitude in coding and IT work. Well, I like some Lynard Skynard myself, but I wouldn't take it that far...
mlkjr 11y ago
How would you know if it is a ghost or not? Would statistics help? I don't think there any tangible statistics on ghosts, are there?
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  There's no reliable examples. That's what I'm saying, people say "Systemic" when really it means nothing when you drill down to the meat of how things are. In fact when you look closer you find the more forces and initiatives towards inclusion within the system. For example for years we've had minority and female only STEM initiatives. Both on their own, and included within other organizations as part of greater educational pushes.

coldtea 11y ago

You know, the kind of systemic that kept them legally segregated until the sixties -- that is, their parents time, and de facto segregated until today. Or the kind of systemic that ensures their school districts are poorer and underfunded. Or the kind of systemic that ensures you take the middle of the road when a black guy in a hoodie walks towards you in the same sidewalk.

mlkjr 11y ago
Having grown up in the Birmingham, Alabama public education system I can tell you segregation never really ended. Sure there aren't signs designating black and white water fountains but just because something is not written on a sign or on the law books doesn't mean its not written in the consciousness of the people. The biggest reason for this in my opinion is the historical obfuscation. Sure, we kind of studied the Civil Rights movement but we never really learned about Dr. King's deeper message, only that he "had a dream", and then segregation ended and everything was "normal" after that. It wasn't until years after graduating that I began reading Dr. King's speeches that and the underlying causes of the racial divisions finally made sense, allowing me to let go of the anger I had held from bad experiences related to the racial animosity. http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentsentry/doc_address_at_the_conclusion_of_selma_march.1.html http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentse...
michaelbuddy 11y ago
So you're blaming the 60s, 70s and 80s for kids who grew up in the 2000s and don't code now? Because I don't know a single person who is in the field of IT whose parents were in IT. Positions barely existed until the 90s. No one has yet explained why even segregation today in some part of the country is affecting ethnic groups NOT interested or apt in coding to the level of getting the jobs.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >So you're blaming the 60s, 70s and 80s for kids who grew up in the 2000s and don't code now? Those kids didn't develop in vitro in some abstract new environment. They had parents, grandparents, neighborhoods, school districts, schools, family fortune (or lack thereof) potential employers (themselves born in the 60' 60's and 80s) etc. Anybody who thinks those things don't affect the nurture, career and prospects of a young person, or that those things change in a few decades, are deluded. Usually the same people also fail to understand the notion of statistics, and think that outliers that beat the odds and rose to become successful entrepreneurs or whatever from such upbringings translate to "it's equally easy for whites and blacks to become successful, here, this kid proved it, but most blacks are just lazy". In other words people who don't understand that most white people play life in easy mode, where most blacks do not -- and point to some "hard mode" winners as if that means everything is equally easy for everybody. http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate
michaelbuddy 11y ago
Sure thing, so do me a favor, point to one of these under funded minority students - because from what I read, the dept of education figures point to more money per pupil spending on black and hispanice students vs white across the united states regionally and in total - http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2011/04/bg2548/bg2548_table1.ashx?w=400&h=729&as=1 http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2011/04/bg254... Now if you can refute the source, I think that's great because I have a hard time believing it myself given the common narrative. One argument might be that somehow the amounts of money given somehow are squandered other ways, but that doesn't discount the amount given, it would point to the system where it's squandered not the funding itself.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Now if you can refute the source The source is meaningless. Visit some schools in typical white districts and in typical black districts and compare them. It's easy to have to spend more public money for poor districts since there's much more infrastructure work to be done, plus the students parents don't have enough to spend on their kids education in the first place.
michaelbuddy 11y ago
You're actually saying there's something "systemic" that causes ME to behave a certain way when in the presense of a black guy in a hoodie? OKAY. Methinks you don't have a grasp of the word "systemic" Like I said before, you're throwing out ghosts that you can't fight against specifically, to reinforce a claim of what causes entire ethnicities to have interest and aptitude in coding and IT work.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >You're actually saying there's something "systemic" that causes ME to behave a certain way when in the presense of a black guy in a hoodie? OKAY. It was the general "use" I used (e.g. the phrase could be read "that ensure one takes the middle of the road"). So, even if not you, then hell of a lot of people. Did you think that people who act in that "certain way" are unique snowflakes, and that their behavior is a personal curiosity that doesn't have historical roots and cultural influences? >Like I said before, you're throwing out ghosts that you can't fight against specifically, to reinforce a claim of what causes entire ethnicities to have interest and aptitude in coding and IT work. Well, I like some Lynard Skynard myself, but I wouldn't take it that far...

mlkjr 11y ago

How would you know if it is a ghost or not? Would statistics help? I don't think there any tangible statistics on ghosts, are there?

michaelbuddy 11y ago
There's no reliable examples. That's what I'm saying, people say "Systemic" when really it means nothing when you drill down to the meat of how things are. In fact when you look closer you find the more forces and initiatives towards inclusion within the system. For example for years we've had minority and female only STEM initiatives. Both on their own, and included within other organizations as part of greater educational pushes.