4 ms·

Airbnb prohibits commercial videos/photos without permission, according to the article.

by huac 11y ago

sp332 11y ago
But what recourse does the homeowner have in that case? And being banned from AirBNB is not really a huge deterrent. Making the behavior illegal would give you more options if it happens to you, and might really make someone think twice.
- rdancer 11y ago
  The contract could have fines for breaking this rule, or the property owner could require guests to agree to a fine in an additional contract on top of the standard terms. But the company has historically never had qualms about screwing their customers over, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > The contract could have fines for breaking this rule It might have a liquidated damages clause if the use of and stipulated amount of liquidated damages was such as to be found reasonable for the type of breach it covers; otherwise, a "fine" in a contract is generally an unenforceable penalty clause.
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    > The contract could have fines for breaking this rule Small legal point. Contracts are not allowed to impose fines. They can cite liquidated damages (what most people see as a fine) but they have to be rationally related to the damage done by the activity described. They cannot be arbitrary or elevated simply to deter unwanted behavior. Yes, this is and issue when it comes to "parking tickets" on private property. 500$ fee to accommodate a cleaning crew = 0k. 5,000$ fine for pain and suffering caused by naked people in someone's home = not enforceable.
    - icebraining 11y ago
      Can't you say that you charge $5000 for commercial use, which the client automatically accepts when they do a commercial activity in the house? After all, isn't that essentially how overdraft fees work? "Oh, you want to withdraw $2 when your balance is $1? That constitutes a request for a loan, for which we charge a $35 fee."
- jdminhbg 11y ago
  Presumably having broken the terms of the agreement, you'd be able to sue them for any damages.
  - aikah 11y ago
    > Presumably having broken the terms of the agreement, you'd be able to sue them for any damages. The "loophole" is there is no way to sue when the host is illegally subletting his apartment at first place. And a good bunch of Airbnb rentals are straight up illegal. Airbnb is a legal nightmare both for guests and hosts. Most of the time everything goes fine. But when things go wrong Airbnb is effectively of little help. That's the sharing economy, the risk is passed down to the user of these services, just like Uber, Kickstarter and co.
    - true_religion 11y ago
      I don't really understand why AirBnB has to be of help in this instance. Someone broke a contract and possibly vandalized a home. The truth of that statement and the penalties involved are enforceable directly through the court system. I am very wary of companies that try to 'help' by requiring 3rd party private arbitration instead of taking it through the established legal system.
- rs999gti 11y ago
  > Making the behavior illegal Renting out residentially zoned property on AirBNB or shooting porn?
- ryanlol 11y ago
  Homeowners already have a plenty of recourse in the case of damages. It's called, you know, courts? In the case of non-damages, what recourse do you really need?
agumonkey 11y ago
So someone should make a business of spotting real houses and telling on.
- huac 11y ago
  yeah, send me a full 3d model of your house and exterior and i'll watch the videos for you ;)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
vkou 11y ago
And most landlords and cities prohibit AirBnB-style rentals, but that has never stopped AirBnB.
- CyberDildonics 11y ago
  Are you sure about that? You seem to missing any sort of a source.
  - vkou 11y ago
    Almost all AirBnB rentals in SF were illegal before 2015. [1] I'm not going to comb through every municipality in North America, but when your company's primary operations are breaking the law in the city you're based in, I think it's safe to say that you aren't particularly keen on following it. There are no particular bylaws governing subletting in tenancy agreements, but almost all landlords forbid it. Mine does. Yours probably does, too. AirBnB has not, and will never do any due diligence in verifying that a renter's tenancy agreement permits short-term subletting - they prefer remaining ignorant of whether or not their units are legal. [1] http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/overview-airbnb-law-san-francisco.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/overview-airbnb-law-s...
  - askldfhjkasfhd 11y ago
    Pretty easy search turned this up. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/083115/top-cities-where-airbnb-legal-or-illegal.asp http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/083115/top-ci... There also exist services to ensure compliance - http://www.hostcompliance.com/ http://www.hostcompliance.com/ A quick google news search also turns up a lot of articles about cities banning / deciding on the legality of abnb. Additionally, your post was likely downvoted because you dashed off an aggressive, cliched comment that could have been answered with less effort than it took to post to HN.

Airbnb prohibits commercial videos/photos without permission, according to the article.

by huac 11y ago

Airbnb prohibits commercial videos/photos without permission, according to the article.

sp332 11y ago

But what recourse does the homeowner have in that case? And being banned from AirBNB is not really a huge deterrent. Making the behavior illegal would give you more options if it happens to you, and might really make someone think twice.

rdancer 11y ago
The contract could have fines for breaking this rule, or the property owner could require guests to agree to a fine in an additional contract on top of the standard terms. But the company has historically never had qualms about screwing their customers over, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > The contract could have fines for breaking this rule It might have a liquidated damages clause if the use of and stipulated amount of liquidated damages was such as to be found reasonable for the type of breach it covers; otherwise, a "fine" in a contract is generally an unenforceable penalty clause.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  > The contract could have fines for breaking this rule Small legal point. Contracts are not allowed to impose fines. They can cite liquidated damages (what most people see as a fine) but they have to be rationally related to the damage done by the activity described. They cannot be arbitrary or elevated simply to deter unwanted behavior. Yes, this is and issue when it comes to "parking tickets" on private property. 500$ fee to accommodate a cleaning crew = 0k. 5,000$ fine for pain and suffering caused by naked people in someone's home = not enforceable.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Can't you say that you charge $5000 for commercial use, which the client automatically accepts when they do a commercial activity in the house? After all, isn't that essentially how overdraft fees work? "Oh, you want to withdraw $2 when your balance is $1? That constitutes a request for a loan, for which we charge a $35 fee."
jdminhbg 11y ago
Presumably having broken the terms of the agreement, you'd be able to sue them for any damages.
- aikah 11y ago
  > Presumably having broken the terms of the agreement, you'd be able to sue them for any damages. The "loophole" is there is no way to sue when the host is illegally subletting his apartment at first place. And a good bunch of Airbnb rentals are straight up illegal. Airbnb is a legal nightmare both for guests and hosts. Most of the time everything goes fine. But when things go wrong Airbnb is effectively of little help. That's the sharing economy, the risk is passed down to the user of these services, just like Uber, Kickstarter and co.
  - true_religion 11y ago
    I don't really understand why AirBnB has to be of help in this instance. Someone broke a contract and possibly vandalized a home. The truth of that statement and the penalties involved are enforceable directly through the court system. I am very wary of companies that try to 'help' by requiring 3rd party private arbitration instead of taking it through the established legal system.
rs999gti 11y ago
> Making the behavior illegal Renting out residentially zoned property on AirBNB or shooting porn?
ryanlol 11y ago
Homeowners already have a plenty of recourse in the case of damages. It's called, you know, courts? In the case of non-damages, what recourse do you really need?

agumonkey 11y ago

So someone should make a business of spotting real houses and telling on.

huac 11y ago
yeah, send me a full 3d model of your house and exterior and i'll watch the videos for you ;)

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

vkou 11y ago

And most landlords and cities prohibit AirBnB-style rentals, but that has never stopped AirBnB.

CyberDildonics 11y ago
Are you sure about that? You seem to missing any sort of a source.
- vkou 11y ago
  Almost all AirBnB rentals in SF were illegal before 2015. [1] I'm not going to comb through every municipality in North America, but when your company's primary operations are breaking the law in the city you're based in, I think it's safe to say that you aren't particularly keen on following it. There are no particular bylaws governing subletting in tenancy agreements, but almost all landlords forbid it. Mine does. Yours probably does, too. AirBnB has not, and will never do any due diligence in verifying that a renter's tenancy agreement permits short-term subletting - they prefer remaining ignorant of whether or not their units are legal. [1] http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/overview-airbnb-law-san-francisco.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/overview-airbnb-law-s...
- askldfhjkasfhd 11y ago
  Pretty easy search turned this up. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/083115/top-cities-where-airbnb-legal-or-illegal.asp http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/083115/top-ci... There also exist services to ensure compliance - http://www.hostcompliance.com/ http://www.hostcompliance.com/ A quick google news search also turns up a lot of articles about cities banning / deciding on the legality of abnb. Additionally, your post was likely downvoted because you dashed off an aggressive, cliched comment that could have been answered with less effort than it took to post to HN.