6 ms·

Yep ethereum has been out for what 6 months and look at all of development on top of it already. BTC has tons of VC money and I see nothing interesting beyond

by jarsin 11y ago

Yep ethereum has been out for what 6 months and look at all of development on top of it already. BTC has tons of VC money and I see nothing interesting beyond a few regulated exchanges. But oh ya we are all suppose to believe BTC can do all of this but apparently nobody really knows how. It's really just a bunch of people that think BTC is special because it was first, but it lost it's first mover advantage. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/43fm3w/the_core_value_proposition_of_ethereum_is_synergy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/43fm3w/the_core_... http://dapps.ethercasts.com/ http://dapps.ethercasts.com/

kang 11y ago
Please give me an ethereum use case & I'll try to tell you how you can do it with bitcoin. I have previously answered a few use cases here [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10846788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10846788]
- drcode 11y ago
  Sending money to someone and having 99.9% certainty after a minute that the transaction is mined and will be in the chain long term. Even though ethereum's 15 sec blocks are nowhere near as secure as Bitcoins 10 minute blocks, the fact that you can 4 blocks after a minute already gives pretty decent doublespend security, from a statistical standpoint.
- woah 11y ago
  Easy scripting language. And don't tell me about rootstock, it's not on top of Bitcoin.
  - httpagent 11y ago
    Can you elaborate on rootstock not being on top of bitcoin? That was my understanding...
- jarsin 11y ago
  the bitshares, nxt, insert any blockchain project all say the same thing yet none of them comes even close to the amount of dev taking place on ethereum. hmm why is that....
  - kang 11y ago
    Vitalik became famous cause of his journalism. Then the sale gave ether founders loads of money. Now it is being used to market cleverly. One example around me here in India is BlockchainU. Blockchain university has taught in almost all prime Indian IT companies pumping ethereum & thus atleast most, if not all, corporate devs are working on ethereum here, whereas there is no central advertising foundation for bitcoin.
    - aaren 11y ago
      Are you suggesting that Consensys, Microsoft, R3CEV and Red Hat are only developing on Ethereum because of clever marketing? There isn't some technical merit to the platform that means they are doing this? Why didn't these companies develop their products on Bitcoin? Are they incapable of due diligence in this space? https://consensys.net/ https://consensys.net/ http://www.blockapps.net/ http://www.blockapps.net/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/blog/ethereum-blockchain-as-a-service-now-on-azure/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/blog/ethereum-blockchain-a... https://consensys.net/static/blockappsRedhat.pdf https://consensys.net/static/blockappsRedhat.pdf http://r3cev.com/ http://r3cev.com/
      - drcode 11y ago
        To be fair, only Consensys and R3CEV are "developing on ethereum"... Microsoft and Red Hat are merely offering machine images with ethereum software pre-installed for their users, as they do for many other software tools- Though I'm happy to be corrected, if you can point me to a Microsoft and/or Redhat-authored smart contract. The news for ethereum is positive enough right now, no need to exaggerate the facts.
        aaren 11y ago
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- splintercell 11y ago
  Last week I built an dapp called 'GameOfTrolls', it is an attempt recreate the /r/GameOfTrolls subreddit which was banned by reddit. The idea was to make a game out of trolling people(as in just lying and making up stories). I did it in one week, it uses Oraclize.it (which I believe is also available for bitcoin, so that's nice), and I am sure it can be built on bitcoin too, but the biggest problem remains this: * While doing development in Solidity, and using HTML/CSS/JS for client, I am able to rapidly build a dapp. * Writing the code in a higher level programming language created for the purpose of blockchain apps, allow me to think at a higher level abstraction. * Training people to write in Solidity is far easier than training them to write in C/C++. * Faster and rapid dapp development(RDD) will unlease a new age in blockchain innovation, and if you have been in tech for a while, you know that 'crack up boom' of innovation we see when Rapid application development became possible. Case in point, Augur. Paul Sztorc has been doing development of Truthcoin for far longer than Augur people and even has funding from Roger Ver, but Augur has managed to rally a lot more people around it by delivering working prototype sooner than later, and now they're already in Beta, targetting 2016 election. Look, I love bitcoin and I was one of the earliest adopters of bitcoin (2009 Dec era). But I have been a software developer for far longer than that, and I can tell you, bitcoin's code is not made to make the things we desire to make now. BTW, here is an argument against Ethereum. Any app built on it, will be inherently slow because of the price they'll pay for building it in a higher level abstraction platform. This means, that Augur will eventually hit performance wall, at which point, every successful Ethereum app will have to be developed in C/C++ and natively to get more performance.
  - DennisP 11y ago
    Generally agree, app development is great. Regarding your last point, apps in Ethereum run on Ethereum's specialized VM. Every opcode has its own transaction fee. There's no way to write an Ethereum app in C++.
    - splintercell 11y ago
      "by Ethereum app in c++" I mean writing that logic in C++, of course it won't run on Ethereum network anymore after that point.
nzoschke 11y ago
The list of dapps is remarkable... That was my first glimpse into the hackability of Etherium and I am very intrigued now. As a total outsider to all this, I suspect you are right. Bitcoin is very hacky, as almost all successful first systems are. Etherium is a second system. First systems: By force of will you cobble together a viable prototype and if you are lucky it gets traction. Then it's an exercise in patching to keep the system running. Second systems: longer dev cycles based on lofty goals for better architecture and features. Many second systems fail here. But if/when the second system gains traction, it's potentially a much better solution since it could learn from mistakes of the first system. It's clear that the tools are better in Etherium for building block chain apps. It also looks like it's getting good adoption. Like all things crypto currency it's interesting that there is money on the line. Bitcoin won't fall out of fashion as quickly as other systems for that reason.

by jarsin 11y ago

kang 11y ago

Please give me an ethereum use case & I'll try to tell you how you can do it with bitcoin. I have previously answered a few use cases here [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10846788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10846788]

drcode 11y ago
Sending money to someone and having 99.9% certainty after a minute that the transaction is mined and will be in the chain long term. Even though ethereum's 15 sec blocks are nowhere near as secure as Bitcoins 10 minute blocks, the fact that you can 4 blocks after a minute already gives pretty decent doublespend security, from a statistical standpoint.
woah 11y ago
Easy scripting language. And don't tell me about rootstock, it's not on top of Bitcoin.
- httpagent 11y ago
  Can you elaborate on rootstock not being on top of bitcoin? That was my understanding...
jarsin 11y ago
the bitshares, nxt, insert any blockchain project all say the same thing yet none of them comes even close to the amount of dev taking place on ethereum. hmm why is that....
- kang 11y ago
  Vitalik became famous cause of his journalism. Then the sale gave ether founders loads of money. Now it is being used to market cleverly. One example around me here in India is BlockchainU. Blockchain university has taught in almost all prime Indian IT companies pumping ethereum & thus atleast most, if not all, corporate devs are working on ethereum here, whereas there is no central advertising foundation for bitcoin.
  - aaren 11y ago
    Are you suggesting that Consensys, Microsoft, R3CEV and Red Hat are only developing on Ethereum because of clever marketing? There isn't some technical merit to the platform that means they are doing this? Why didn't these companies develop their products on Bitcoin? Are they incapable of due diligence in this space? https://consensys.net/ https://consensys.net/ http://www.blockapps.net/ http://www.blockapps.net/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/blog/ethereum-blockchain-as-a-service-now-on-azure/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/blog/ethereum-blockchain-a... https://consensys.net/static/blockappsRedhat.pdf https://consensys.net/static/blockappsRedhat.pdf http://r3cev.com/ http://r3cev.com/
    - drcode 11y ago
      To be fair, only Consensys and R3CEV are "developing on ethereum"... Microsoft and Red Hat are merely offering machine images with ethereum software pre-installed for their users, as they do for many other software tools- Though I'm happy to be corrected, if you can point me to a Microsoft and/or Redhat-authored smart contract. The news for ethereum is positive enough right now, no need to exaggerate the facts.
      - aaren 11y ago
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
splintercell 11y ago
Last week I built an dapp called 'GameOfTrolls', it is an attempt recreate the /r/GameOfTrolls subreddit which was banned by reddit. The idea was to make a game out of trolling people(as in just lying and making up stories). I did it in one week, it uses Oraclize.it (which I believe is also available for bitcoin, so that's nice), and I am sure it can be built on bitcoin too, but the biggest problem remains this: * While doing development in Solidity, and using HTML/CSS/JS for client, I am able to rapidly build a dapp. * Writing the code in a higher level programming language created for the purpose of blockchain apps, allow me to think at a higher level abstraction. * Training people to write in Solidity is far easier than training them to write in C/C++. * Faster and rapid dapp development(RDD) will unlease a new age in blockchain innovation, and if you have been in tech for a while, you know that 'crack up boom' of innovation we see when Rapid application development became possible. Case in point, Augur. Paul Sztorc has been doing development of Truthcoin for far longer than Augur people and even has funding from Roger Ver, but Augur has managed to rally a lot more people around it by delivering working prototype sooner than later, and now they're already in Beta, targetting 2016 election. Look, I love bitcoin and I was one of the earliest adopters of bitcoin (2009 Dec era). But I have been a software developer for far longer than that, and I can tell you, bitcoin's code is not made to make the things we desire to make now. BTW, here is an argument against Ethereum. Any app built on it, will be inherently slow because of the price they'll pay for building it in a higher level abstraction platform. This means, that Augur will eventually hit performance wall, at which point, every successful Ethereum app will have to be developed in C/C++ and natively to get more performance.
- DennisP 11y ago
  Generally agree, app development is great. Regarding your last point, apps in Ethereum run on Ethereum's specialized VM. Every opcode has its own transaction fee. There's no way to write an Ethereum app in C++.
  - splintercell 11y ago
    "by Ethereum app in c++" I mean writing that logic in C++, of course it won't run on Ethereum network anymore after that point.

nzoschke 11y ago

The list of dapps is remarkable... That was my first glimpse into the hackability of Etherium and I am very intrigued now. As a total outsider to all this, I suspect you are right. Bitcoin is very hacky, as almost all successful first systems are. Etherium is a second system. First systems: By force of will you cobble together a viable prototype and if you are lucky it gets traction. Then it's an exercise in patching to keep the system running. Second systems: longer dev cycles based on lofty goals for better architecture and features. Many second systems fail here. But if/when the second system gains traction, it's potentially a much better solution since it could learn from mistakes of the first system. It's clear that the tools are better in Etherium for building block chain apps. It also looks like it's getting good adoption. Like all things crypto currency it's interesting that there is money on the line. Bitcoin won't fall out of fashion as quickly as other systems for that reason.