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Open doesn't mean it's an unlocked door. Open means that the owner of the device can replace the firmware. There's nothing not-open about requiring that the ow

Open doesn't mean it's an unlocked door. Open means that the owner of the device can replace the firmware. There's nothing not-open about requiring that the owner authenticate first. It's only not open if the vendor, rather than the owner, is the only one who the device will permit to replace its firmware.

afarrell 11y ago
> means that the owner of the device can replace the firmware It means that a small minority of owners of the device can replace the firmware. Most people don't have the resources to do something like that.
- parenthephobia 11y ago
  The resources required to replace the firmware on a non-crippled Android device is access to the Internet from that device. This is not a big ask. Most people who own an iPhone have a data plan and/or access to WiFi. Sure, only a small minority of device owners can actually make new firmware, but fortunately only one of them needs to make and distribute some firmware for everyone to be able to install it, if the device is open.
  - afarrell 11y ago
    Are you saying this as someone who has helped non-hobbyists install new firmware onto their phones? I haven't, but helped many people install desktop linux around 2008-2009 and was often surprised by the problems they ran into.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  Most people don't have the resources, knowledge, or desire to replace their car's engine parts. Does that mean it's ok to sell a car with a locked hood, that requires a manufacturer-controlled key before the engine can be serviced? No, even if they personally don't want to touch the engine, they turn to knowledgeable friends/family or pay a professional mechanic to do the work. This unfortunately-common view that most people should never even have the option to do anything technical is insulting and maybe even monopolistic (it bans 3rd party repairs/parts).
chakalakasp 11y ago
Okay, so how do you verify that only the owner can do that, on the OS level, if the firmware is not first totally locked down? The security of iOS devices comes from the fact that Apple has engineered the devices to behave a certain way when using Apple firmware and that that firmware can't be modified or replaced without the signing key of Apple. And Apple is making it clear that they are on the side of the consumer, not the three letter agencies.
- Renevith 11y ago
  You use the exact same design as iOS, but with unique keys in the hands of each device owner (in other words, a PIN or password) rather than one key in the hands of the vendor.

afarrell 11y ago

> means that the owner of the device can replace the firmware It means that a small minority of owners of the device can replace the firmware. Most people don't have the resources to do something like that.

parenthephobia 11y ago
The resources required to replace the firmware on a non-crippled Android device is access to the Internet from that device. This is not a big ask. Most people who own an iPhone have a data plan and/or access to WiFi. Sure, only a small minority of device owners can actually make new firmware, but fortunately only one of them needs to make and distribute some firmware for everyone to be able to install it, if the device is open.
- afarrell 11y ago
  Are you saying this as someone who has helped non-hobbyists install new firmware onto their phones? I haven't, but helped many people install desktop linux around 2008-2009 and was often surprised by the problems they ran into.
pdkl95 11y ago
Most people don't have the resources, knowledge, or desire to replace their car's engine parts. Does that mean it's ok to sell a car with a locked hood, that requires a manufacturer-controlled key before the engine can be serviced? No, even if they personally don't want to touch the engine, they turn to knowledgeable friends/family or pay a professional mechanic to do the work. This unfortunately-common view that most people should never even have the option to do anything technical is insulting and maybe even monopolistic (it bans 3rd party repairs/parts).

chakalakasp 11y ago

Okay, so how do you verify that only the owner can do that, on the OS level, if the firmware is not first totally locked down? The security of iOS devices comes from the fact that Apple has engineered the devices to behave a certain way when using Apple firmware and that that firmware can't be modified or replaced without the signing key of Apple. And Apple is making it clear that they are on the side of the consumer, not the three letter agencies.

Renevith 11y ago
You use the exact same design as iOS, but with unique keys in the hands of each device owner (in other words, a PIN or password) rather than one key in the hands of the vendor.