7 ms·

Blind hiring is a good idea. But definitely cannot explain the bulk of the issue. It is systemic and the article completely writes of the idea that there is a p

Blind hiring is a good idea. But definitely cannot explain the bulk of the issue. It is systemic and the article completely writes of the idea that there is a pipeline problem - which ignores a lot of the pre-college factors that go into whether or not a student of a minority demographic can succeed in a top tier engineering program in particular (I mention engineering because the article refers to Silicon Valley jobs a lot). Below are two pieces on the demographics of engineers at Harvard and Stanford: they show pretty clearly that the percent of Black and Hispanic students in these programs lags significantly to the US population percentage. https://medium.com/@jcueto/race-and-gender-among-computer-science-majors-at-stanford-3824c4062e3a#.kng7b82dw https://medium.com/@jcueto/race-and-gender-among-computer-sc... https://medium.com/@winniewu/race-and-gender-among-computer-science-concentrators-at-harvard-1c1943a20457#.5yszoxbd0 https://medium.com/@winniewu/race-and-gender-among-computer-...

Retric 11y ago
"Stanford Computer Science majors are Asian (46.4%), followed by White (38%), Hispanic (9.5%) and Black (6.1%)." High school: Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent. 13.2% of the population is black, 17.1% Latino, 63% white. If White = (38%) then you would expect black to be: 38% / (.63 * .86) * (13.2 * .69) = 6.39%. So if anything Standford is about right for black people, and massively over represents Asians. It seems like HS graduation rates are the real issue everything else just flows from that. But, income and graduation rates are linked so it's a self perpetuating cycle.
- OJFord 11y ago
  > So if anything Standford [sic] is about right for black > people, and massively over represents Asians. That assumes only local applications though. And even then ignores demographic prejudice in where to apply (which is probably more slight). I would guess Asian students are a majority among international applicants to Stanford. If we then looked at high school 'graduation' worldwide as the baseline, that's probably an underrepresentation.
  - Retric 11y ago
    I am ignoring where people apply, just adjusting for % of population and % of high school graduates. There are a lot of ways to play with the numbers but that seemed like a good first approximation. Also, international students are 8.70% of undergrads at Stanford, so they can't really change the stats that much.
- anpk 11y ago
  Asians is a huge group. Would be nice to see a break down between Chinese, Indians and the rest of asia
throw2048-AZ43 11y ago
Stanford and Harvard are top-level universities aiming to enroll (mostly) those who are in top 5-15% of national IQ levels. How would the characteristic of their diversity efforts change if instead of comparing to the US population percentage you start comparing to the population percentage at the right end of the IQ distribution?
- DelaneyM 11y ago
  Are you really suggesting that underrepresented groups are just less intelligent?
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    He's suggesting that we should dig up academic papers studying the topic and run the numbers based on the intelligence distributions found therein. Here are a few review articles to get you started - more detailed studies can be found referenced therein. http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf https://home.ubalt.edu/tmitch/645/articles/roth%20et%20al%20ethnic%20grp%20diff%20in%20cog%20abil%20ppsych%202001.pdf https://home.ubalt.edu/tmitch/645/articles/roth%20et%20al%20... http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf http://matt.colorado.edu/teaching/highcog/fall8/nbbbbchlpsu96.pdf http://matt.colorado.edu/teaching/highcog/fall8/nbbbbchlpsu9... https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstrea...
    - tptacek 11y ago
      J. Philippe Rushton, who you cite directly twice here, ran The Pioneer Group, an organization that funds both research and public policy premised on the idea that "white persons" are superior to other "races"; it's an organization that was literally founded (prior to World War 2) to promote the eugenics ideas of the Third Reich.
      - yummyfajitas 11y ago
supercheetah 11y ago
What are you talking about? That was about half of the article.

Retric 11y ago

"Stanford Computer Science majors are Asian (46.4%), followed by White (38%), Hispanic (9.5%) and Black (6.1%)." High school: Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent. 13.2% of the population is black, 17.1% Latino, 63% white. If White = (38%) then you would expect black to be: 38% / (.63 * .86) * (13.2 * .69) = 6.39%. So if anything Standford is about right for black people, and massively over represents Asians. It seems like HS graduation rates are the real issue everything else just flows from that. But, income and graduation rates are linked so it's a self perpetuating cycle.

OJFord 11y ago
> So if anything Standford [sic] is about right for black > people, and massively over represents Asians. That assumes only local applications though. And even then ignores demographic prejudice in where to apply (which is probably more slight). I would guess Asian students are a majority among international applicants to Stanford. If we then looked at high school 'graduation' worldwide as the baseline, that's probably an underrepresentation.
- Retric 11y ago
  I am ignoring where people apply, just adjusting for % of population and % of high school graduates. There are a lot of ways to play with the numbers but that seemed like a good first approximation. Also, international students are 8.70% of undergrads at Stanford, so they can't really change the stats that much.
anpk 11y ago
Asians is a huge group. Would be nice to see a break down between Chinese, Indians and the rest of asia

throw2048-AZ43 11y ago

Stanford and Harvard are top-level universities aiming to enroll (mostly) those who are in top 5-15% of national IQ levels. How would the characteristic of their diversity efforts change if instead of comparing to the US population percentage you start comparing to the population percentage at the right end of the IQ distribution?

DelaneyM 11y ago
Are you really suggesting that underrepresented groups are just less intelligent?
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  He's suggesting that we should dig up academic papers studying the topic and run the numbers based on the intelligence distributions found therein. Here are a few review articles to get you started - more detailed studies can be found referenced therein. http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf https://home.ubalt.edu/tmitch/645/articles/roth%20et%20al%20ethnic%20grp%20diff%20in%20cog%20abil%20ppsych%202001.pdf https://home.ubalt.edu/tmitch/645/articles/roth%20et%20al%20... http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf http://matt.colorado.edu/teaching/highcog/fall8/nbbbbchlpsu96.pdf http://matt.colorado.edu/teaching/highcog/fall8/nbbbbchlpsu9... https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstrea...
  - tptacek 11y ago
    J. Philippe Rushton, who you cite directly twice here, ran The Pioneer Group, an organization that funds both research and public policy premised on the idea that "white persons" are superior to other "races"; it's an organization that was literally founded (prior to World War 2) to promote the eugenics ideas of the Third Reich.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago

supercheetah 11y ago

What are you talking about? That was about half of the article.