6 ms·

Will Verizon stick with FIOS? Verizon installs FIOS (fiber to the house) and rips out your copper network. ATT runs fiber to the pole and leaves your copper ne

by pgrote 11y ago

Will Verizon stick with FIOS? Verizon installs FIOS (fiber to the house) and rips out your copper network. ATT runs fiber to the pole and leaves your copper network. If ATT can't make it with the copper as the last step, I wonder if Verizon will continue to invest in fiber?

rayiner 11y ago
Verizon has stopped building out FiOS to new areas beyond those it already has commitments to. They may never make their money back on it.
- jseliger 11y ago
  Verizon has stopped building out FiOS to new areas beyond those it already has commitments to. They may never make their money back on it. Given some of the deals they're offering, I see why. I live in a FiOS area and was eager to get it... until I realized that RCN offered 330 Mbs down for substantially less: http://www.rcn.com/330 http://www.rcn.com/330. FiOS is symmetrical, which is nice, but RCN is about $50 per month cheaper compared to FiOS, and upload speeds are not of critical importance to me. FiOS also has lower latency, but, again, the price delta is large. My impression is also that Verizon makes money off FiOS, just not as much as it would like, but some searching hasn't brought up any good data on it.
  - untog 11y ago
    I had the opposite - FIOS is cheaper than Time Warner for me.
- shmerl 11y ago
  > They may never make their money back on it. That's not true. FiOS is actually pretty profitable for them (this data is public). It's pretty much the only thing that is profitable there. Their copper networks are not proftiable. The reason they don't want to invest in it is the conflict of interests and shortsighted stupidity of their current top management. They want to spend money on wireless, from which they expect to get more profit margins short term. Investing in landline networks is a longer term investment and they simply can't think in such categories anymore.
  - rayiner 11y ago
    Link? My understanding is that they're operating at a relatively small operating profit margin, but their return on capital investment is not enough to cover their cost of capital. I don't even understand your point about long-term investment. The future of computing is mobile, and wired networks are the real long-term investment?
    - shmerl 11y ago
      > Link? I can look it up. > The future of computing is mobile Landline networks aren't going anywhere, and yes - their usage will only grow. When wireless networks will compare to them in capability, pricing and etc. you can say that they are a replacement. So far there is no indication that it will ever happen.
      - rayiner 11y ago
        > When wireless networks will compare to them in capability, pricing and etc. The capability that people want is mobility, which wireline does not offer them. That's why people pay $150 cell phone bills but would balk at paying a $150 wired internet bill. Verizon and AT&T diverting capital investment to wireless is literally just giving customers what they want.
        shmerl 11y ago
        > Verizon and AT&T diverting capital investment to wireless is literally just giving customers what they want. Only in part. Since they at the same time neglect their landline services which a lot of customers want as well (especially those who are stuck on DSL and etc.). As I said, it's a simple conflict of interests. They can make money on both, but wireless brings them more fast profit, so they neglect landline altogether.
    - shmerl 11y ago
      Here you go: Wireline’s revenues decreased $0.2 billion, or 2.3%, and $0.6 billion, or 2.2%, respectively, during the three and nine months ended September 30, 2015, compared to the similar periods in 2014, primarily as a result of declines in Global Enterprise, partially offset by __higher Mass Markets revenues driven by fios services__. Mass Markets revenues increased $0.1 billion, or 1.8%, and $0.4 billion, or 2.6%, respectively, during the three and nine months ended September 30, 2015, compared to the similar periods in 2014, __primarily due to the expansion of fios services__ (voice, internet and video), including our fios Quantum offerings, as well as changes in our pricing strategies, partially offset by the continued decline of local exchange revenues. http://verizon.api.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EdgarPro.dll?FetchFilingHTML1?SessionID=oYk4e2f3BLEDRFm&ID=10971179 http://verizon.api.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EdgarPro.dll?Fet... FiOS is profitable.
sjm-lbm 11y ago
Verizon has been steadily selling off different FiOS (and landline) regions to a company called Frontier Communications (see http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/09/verizon-gets-approval-to-sell-part-of-fios-and-dsl-territory-to-frontier/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/09/verizon-gets-approva... for a recent story about one of these sales progressing).
stuff4ben 11y ago
That's not entirely correct. I have Gigapower and it's FTTH. I have both UVerse TV and the Gigapower internet and so far I love it. If they get rid of UVerse, I may drop them completely and switch to Google Fiber which should be online my area by then. It's a great time to be in RTP, NC! Finally have some choices besides TWC now.

by pgrote 11y ago

rayiner 11y ago

Verizon has stopped building out FiOS to new areas beyond those it already has commitments to. They may never make their money back on it.

jseliger 11y ago
Verizon has stopped building out FiOS to new areas beyond those it already has commitments to. They may never make their money back on it. Given some of the deals they're offering, I see why. I live in a FiOS area and was eager to get it... until I realized that RCN offered 330 Mbs down for substantially less: http://www.rcn.com/330 http://www.rcn.com/330. FiOS is symmetrical, which is nice, but RCN is about $50 per month cheaper compared to FiOS, and upload speeds are not of critical importance to me. FiOS also has lower latency, but, again, the price delta is large. My impression is also that Verizon makes money off FiOS, just not as much as it would like, but some searching hasn't brought up any good data on it.
- untog 11y ago
  I had the opposite - FIOS is cheaper than Time Warner for me.
shmerl 11y ago
> They may never make their money back on it. That's not true. FiOS is actually pretty profitable for them (this data is public). It's pretty much the only thing that is profitable there. Their copper networks are not proftiable. The reason they don't want to invest in it is the conflict of interests and shortsighted stupidity of their current top management. They want to spend money on wireless, from which they expect to get more profit margins short term. Investing in landline networks is a longer term investment and they simply can't think in such categories anymore.
- rayiner 11y ago
  Link? My understanding is that they're operating at a relatively small operating profit margin, but their return on capital investment is not enough to cover their cost of capital. I don't even understand your point about long-term investment. The future of computing is mobile, and wired networks are the real long-term investment?
  - shmerl 11y ago
    > Link? I can look it up. > The future of computing is mobile Landline networks aren't going anywhere, and yes - their usage will only grow. When wireless networks will compare to them in capability, pricing and etc. you can say that they are a replacement. So far there is no indication that it will ever happen.
    - rayiner 11y ago
      > When wireless networks will compare to them in capability, pricing and etc. The capability that people want is mobility, which wireline does not offer them. That's why people pay $150 cell phone bills but would balk at paying a $150 wired internet bill. Verizon and AT&T diverting capital investment to wireless is literally just giving customers what they want.
      - shmerl 11y ago
        > Verizon and AT&T diverting capital investment to wireless is literally just giving customers what they want. Only in part. Since they at the same time neglect their landline services which a lot of customers want as well (especially those who are stuck on DSL and etc.). As I said, it's a simple conflict of interests. They can make money on both, but wireless brings them more fast profit, so they neglect landline altogether.
  - shmerl 11y ago
    Here you go: Wireline’s revenues decreased $0.2 billion, or 2.3%, and $0.6 billion, or 2.2%, respectively, during the three and nine months ended September 30, 2015, compared to the similar periods in 2014, primarily as a result of declines in Global Enterprise, partially offset by __higher Mass Markets revenues driven by fios services__. Mass Markets revenues increased $0.1 billion, or 1.8%, and $0.4 billion, or 2.6%, respectively, during the three and nine months ended September 30, 2015, compared to the similar periods in 2014, __primarily due to the expansion of fios services__ (voice, internet and video), including our fios Quantum offerings, as well as changes in our pricing strategies, partially offset by the continued decline of local exchange revenues. http://verizon.api.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EdgarPro.dll?FetchFilingHTML1?SessionID=oYk4e2f3BLEDRFm&ID=10971179 http://verizon.api.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EdgarPro.dll?Fet... FiOS is profitable.

sjm-lbm 11y ago

Verizon has been steadily selling off different FiOS (and landline) regions to a company called Frontier Communications (see http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/09/verizon-gets-approval-to-sell-part-of-fios-and-dsl-territory-to-frontier/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/09/verizon-gets-approva... for a recent story about one of these sales progressing).

stuff4ben 11y ago

That's not entirely correct. I have Gigapower and it's FTTH. I have both UVerse TV and the Gigapower internet and so far I love it. If they get rid of UVerse, I may drop them completely and switch to Google Fiber which should be online my area by then. It's a great time to be in RTP, NC! Finally have some choices besides TWC now.